Catch n release

Salmon C&R in freshwater have a lower survival rate than those caught in saltwater.

Yes that's exactly my point. If people are okay with C&R in the river, then how are they against C&R in the ocean? It's hypocritical..
If you (not you personally ericl) strongly disagree with C&R after limiting out, I hope you don't go steelheading in a 0 retention system, or never fish for pinks/chum for fun
 
Some guides forget they are being paid to provide a service. That service does not include impeding your moral high ground on customers. Those customers have the RIGHT to go get 4 lings if that's what they chose to do. The guides job is to try to provide what ever the customer is looking for providing its legal.
 
Theres 2 sides to that coin, ILHG. Part of a guides job is to inform the guests about sustainability practices. Bottomfish reproduce much differently than salmon - it takes longer, and theyre not on a migration route so youre catching them in their homes. It doesnt take much fishing pressure to clean out a reef entirely of its bottomfish population. Ill always ask my guests what their goals are for this trip, what kind of fish they want to target the most, etc. Sometimes theyll say they love lingcod and want to take a bunch home, and thats fine. It becomes a problem when every guest wants every fish they can legally kill.

Our lodge does about 22 3 or 4 day trips a season, 14 guests per trip. If each guest demanded their limit of lingcod the area would be cleaned out in a single season and would take years upon years to rebound. Thats not a sustainable model for the lodge or for the ocean. The guests that think this way have likely never put any thought into the ecosystem that theyre disrupting and the consequences of killing everything that swims. All it takes is a little subtle educating from the guide and most people realize pretty quickly that they dont need all 4 chinooks, 4coho/chums, 2 halibut, 4 lingcod, and 6 rockfish. That 2 day limit is more fish than almost any person could reasonably consume in a calendar year!
 
Once my guests are tubbed on chinook, thats it. We can go bottomfishing, sightseeing, whalewatching, but thats it for salmon for the day! Ill let them know when theyre close to their limit that they might want to shake off a few smaller fish before bonking the next one, but most guests are happy with a 15-20#er. If its a bleeder, its a keeper. I leave them in the water and pop them off with the gaff. If its a 30+, I encourage them to release it, but I also tell them that its their fish and theyre entitled to do with it as they wish. Most people understand why we release the big ones and are happy enough getting their tyee pin. All of our boats carry C+R nets, no kill nets!

One thing that I make a conscious effort to avoid is using the word "need" when talking about fish limits. Nobody NEEDS a full tub of chinook, you dont NEED a turkey, and you certainly dont NEED 4 lingcods. So when my guests arrive at the boat in the morning and say "OK, today we need 4 chinooks and 1 turkey" Im quick to let them know that we dont NEED any of those fish at all, but it would be nice to catch them.

This is how a real professional operates. Well done sir!
 
Part of being a professional guide is asking what your customers want to fish for during the booking process. That is the time to refuse a trip based on your personal beliefs. If I get asked if I do rock fish trips....nope sorry I don't and they are free to try someone else.
 
All your bad experiences and examples for botched C&R are a result of bad practices in handling hooked fish. If you practice C&R you better switch to single hook to begin with, learn how to unhook a fish outside your boat without touching. And even if you must have a trophy shot you can do this with high chance of survival by using a C&R friendly net, net the fish and keep it in the water outside your boat, have your camera man ready with the camera, carefully with wet hands grab the fish out of the net supporting the fish on tail and belly, lift up and in the camera and 5 sec later back in the water. Any salmon will survive that fine.

The bad reputation of C&R stems from crappy knotted nets, fish being thrown on the boat floor and left flopping around, stepping on it while yanking out trebles and stingers, grabbing them with dry hand either just by the tail or in the gills and lifting with point load, holding the fish while buddy looks for the camera, probably dropping the fish at least once before picture finally taken....

Do it right and no problem. We better get good with this because the days of meat fishing will be over soon and if you want to continue enjoying your hobby you better learn the sport in fishing!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm stunned when I see some of the behavior of guys out on the water when they think they're doing the fish such a big favor when releasing it . Get the net out? Never. I don't care what the net is made out of---a net is for killing a fish. A fish intended for release should NEVER go into a net. A fish that's going to be released should never come over your gunnel.

It's Not much of a mystery on how to properly release a salt chuck spring in good condition:

1)) Use a stout rod, minimum 25 lb test rating
2)) Use a minimum of 30 lb test mainline AND 30 lb test leader
3)) ALWAYS use single barbless hooks---guys who talk C&R but use trebles in their anchovies----who are they kidding?????
4)) Have a gaff and a cotton glove next to you at all times
5)) Lift the rod tip and get hold of the main line with a free hand (gloved if possible)
6)) Lay your rod down with the reel on free-spool or with a loosened drag, then hand line the fish to the side of the boat
7)) Hook the header with the gaff, lift the leader so the gaff goes down into the bend of the hook then pull the leader downward at the same time you lift the gaff anchored in the bend of the hook. The fish falls off and swims away. If No. 2 hook is buried, repeat procedure on No. 2 hook

If you don't see your hooks, cut the leader.

This works on any fish that swims that doesn't suffer barotrauma.

I take 3 week trips in the summer. Everything goes back until the last two days of the trip. Then the net comes out. If I shoot blanks on those 2 days, that was my choice.

I never touch these fish that go back. Springs are delicate creatures. And they live to see another day if you treat them delicately. A heavy rod and stout leader is a good place to start. I stow my Sage 3106 for the first few weeks of the trip because I think it's too soft a rod for C&R. But on the last two days of the trip, that 3106 is a killer....
 
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Yes that's exactly my point. If people are okay with C&R in the river, then how are they against C&R in the ocean? It's hypocritical..
If you (not you personally ericl) strongly disagree with C&R after limiting out, I hope you don't go steelheading in a 0 retention system, or never fish for pinks/chum for fun

I would like to see the scientific data on saltwater salmon having better survival than freshwater.

Interesting topic. Here's more aspects of fishing if opposed to C&R after a limit

No steelheading in BC unless in a hatchery stocked river.

After catching 4 dogfish that person is done fishing for anything.
 
My 2c:

- I don’t think those that keep one spot open on their license are taking a more ethical position than those with no spots. Yes you can keep a bleeder but what about all the other fish you do release that may not survive. This seems to me like a loophole to justify C&R. This especially goes for all the guides, who are presumably doing more C&R than the rest of us.

- I'my thinking that C&R isn't illegal because it would be impossible to enforce. "I wasn't fishing for Chinook/Steelhead.". Only option would be to ban fishing altogether, which they do do when they are really serious about protecting a species

- I agree with the posters that suggest if you are really worried about fish mortality, you should probably find a new hobby
 
I heard a guide in the valley here went to court just last yr? after being charged by dfo for this ..he said they were fishing for pacific cod and beat the charge :rolleyes:
No-- he was charged with barbed hooks while fishing for salmon-- he beat it by saying that for pcod barbed hooks were ok and that was what he was fishing for.
 
How about this guys, your fishing and got one spot left for a spring on the boats daily limit. You hit a 40 and it fights an epic battle. What do you do? Release it and try for a fish in the teens or let it go and maybe it doesn't make it. It's a matter of opinion and everyone is different. And you know what they say about opinions lol
 
****** though when there is a thread like this explaining proper release, and you still get anglers who net the fish, bring it in the boat just to get a hero pic and then release it after it' been in the boat. Basically killing an 18-20lb spring just to get a hero pic and then post it.
Sweet....you guys are great....
 
i yell at the baby killers, brutal handling by some who think they are fisherman. totally missing the point of c&r..
 
Salmon C&R in freshwater have a lower survival rate than those caught in saltwater.

According to https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjAGegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw06yJCfhm-et18Br2pTxm1Z coho have about 5x lower survival in saltwater C&R than freshwater C&R. "Coho salmon which were caught and released in the estuary suffered a significantly higher rate of mortality(69%) than did either the coho salmon caught and held above the estuary(12%) or those which were dip netted and held at the weir(1%)"
Interestingly the net did very little harm compared to the other forms of angling..
 
Do it properly and you don't have to worry much about mortality. All you here who are so concerned should seriously review your procedure!

By not worry much you mean keep the mortality down to 10-15%? plenty of studies showing even under ideal C&R conditions there is mortality of at least 10%. Probably higher for undersized fish. If you are releasing fish a minority are dying, that can not be avoided. Of course if you handle them roughly or carelessly the mortality rates will go up.
 
There's mortality for sure, we can all agree on that. When you factor in the percentage of TAC sporties get I don't think it has a significant impact on the fishery as a whole. There's way bigger issues, all we can do is our best.

Disclaimer; I shouldn't need to say it but before someone jumps on me I'm not advocating poor handling practices.
 
I think one of the biggest catch and release issues is with small shakers (45 cm or less) the mortality on these fish is very high. For fish in the 12 inch class probably close to 30% on typical salmon gear with many fish hooked in the eye or gills. In some areas and periods there are a lot of these fish around and I think proper ethics for dealing with this situation is something that is worth discussing. This is particularly true as current thinking suggests much of the 'natural' marine mortality occurs in the first year, so a 12-14" Chinook is almost as valuable to the fishery/resource as a marginal undersize. Probably the standby methods that many people use is to switch to very large hooks and lures or simply to stop fishing/move. Another (probably less useful) option is to go to very small hooks (2/0) or smaller. The small hook option might make sense if their are also lots of fish in 40-60 cm class around (Wild Coho or Chinook) that need to be released. These intermediate size fish will still a large hook which does more damage than a small hook (often entering the eye).
 
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