Emergency Victoria @ Area SFAB Mtg Re: 2018 Chinook - May 4/18

This thread getting brutal with FN bashing. Finger pointing isn't going to help anything. Its the department not FN. Direct the anger there. Sorry if you catch a fish in ocean you are still impacting the resource, and everyone has to look in the mirror. How many take way more then they need every year on here. In no way I am saying I like nets in the river, but what are we going to do? Go to supreme court and challenge a constitutional right? We need to think smarter and align with First nation, and than push back on DFO to getting the salmon enhancement programs going, and restore lost habitats. Can we not have another thread closed down. Lets stay on topic.
 
I respectfully disagree. The vast majority of studies show hatcheries have a negative impact on wild populations and rarely any lasting effects on population’s, other than negative. One of the best large scale examples is the state of Montana, who’s stream fisheries have become world renowned since abandoning hatchery supplementation and enhancement altogether.

Then there’s the fact that hatchery enhancement has essentially fed the commercial sector which has led to more intense fishing (often mixed stock fishing impacting small populations of chinook, coho and steelhead) than would have been sustainable otherwise, and in fact is now showing that it never was sustainable anyway. Finally, there are the facts California points out - that hatcheries have given a false sense of security for far too long and allowed politicians and industry to continue unsustainable logging, development, mining, agricultural, etc, etc, etc practices and we’re currently paying the price.

Look at all the flooding on the news the past few years - a direct result of watersheds cut to a state they no longer retain water and promote groundwater infiltration like they used to. Along side our changing climate, we’re seeing an earlier, more rapid melt/runoff. These shorter duration, higher intensity freshests are amplified by a vast network of resource roads and poor culvert crossings and ditches that speed up runoff further and add sediment and bedload. Eventually our mountain streams make it to the valley bottoms where agriculture, housing developments and industry have constrained the flood plains so our rivers and streams can no longer meander and redistribute spawning gravels and scour new holding/rearing pools. Instead they’re all dyked and dredged and straightened to protect the infrastructure that shouldn’t have been built in the floodplain in the first place. How long do you think channelized, dyked river systems can remain productive for salmon? Not long!

Probably the scariest piece is the fact our early, wet springs are now followed by longer, drier summers with ever expanding agriculture and development sucking more water from lower base flows over a longer period. Compromised streams with low to no flows simply can’t produce fish anywhere near the productivity of a functioning watershed.

Pro fisher, we do agree that we need to focus on the fundamental issue of salmon productivity and sustainability in this province if we’re ever going to see much recreational fishing access in the future!

Cheers!

Ukee

I agree 100% but how much would this cost to correct? And where does that budget fall on a political platform? Above jobs? Healthcare? Education?

It’s so far down the list for the general public it often barely even makes it onto most political platforms.
 
This thread getting brutal with FN bashing. Finger pointing isn't going to help anything. Its the department not FN. Direct the anger there. Sorry if you catch a fish in ocean you are still impacting the resource, and everyone has to look in the mirror. How many take way more then they need every year on here. In no way I am saying I like nets in the river, but what are we going to do? Go to supreme court and challenge a constitutional right? We need to think smarter and align with First nation, and than push back on DFO to getting the salmon enhancement programs going, and restore lost habitats. Can we not have another thread closed down. Lets stay on topic.
Maybe do a tour of the Fraser river by small plane or helicopter to see where those fish you let go by in the name on conservation end up. You will want to jump out.
 
What is written in the proposed recommendations regarding additional in river restrictions?

Anything we do this year and next for that matter,firstly does nothing more than provide optics for those who are influencing decisions with opinions rather than facts. Secondly provides fish for reallocation to FN fishing in the River. Unless there is accurate monitoring and an actual 30-35% reduction in river as well. How does this not become anything other than a political wash ?

To clarify, I fully support some restrictions to help support troubled Chinook. I do not support using this as a free pass to reallocate quota knowing full well that there will be NO meaningful results.
 
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It is May 8. From Yale down there has already been 17 LEGAL FN drift/SET openings ranging in length from 8hrs to 24+ hrs.
Not too mention the illegal activity as well.
From Yale to Prince George there has been numerous opening for gill nets including 3 that are happening right now as we speak.
It doesn' matter what restrictions we do...it WILL not help the Fraser stocks!!
 
Whitebuck, anyone that has fished the Fraser is well aware of the rampant gill netting. However, there has not been much constructive discussion on addressing the problem. FN will continue to cite treaty rights and recreational opportunities will disappear if sport fisherman are not willing to work with DFO & FN. There are lots of white guys poaching in the canyon as well.. including the use of set nets at night.

How about proposing some solutions and writing the fisheries minister or your local MP. a few ideas below:
-increased funding for enforcement to address illegal gill netting
-mandatory third party catch monitoring during legal FN fisheries
-creating Guardian programs to increase compliance with regulations and improve in catch monitoring
-working with upper Fraser Nations to address over harvesting in the Chilliwack - Hope corridor.

More ideas greatly welcome!
 
Only traditional methods or rod and reel...like almost all the FN do above Yale...have them open all year.
Those are great ideas, a lot region 3 FN groups are already working with fisheries on solving problems they face.
However they MAIN hatred is what they’re brothers are doing from the Canyon down. These upriver groups for the most part are extremely cooperative.
 
I joined this forum to follow this topic, and maybe get involved. But it seems like, as always, racism and ignorance towards aboriginal Canadians abounds. It always does, and it's always backed by emotional arguments and greedy self interests. Sickening.

While I'm not a be all end all authority on the topic, I've read enough to be aware of what's going on. Most people do not even have a tiny grasp of what's going on in regards to aboriginal constitutional rights being fought for by aboriginal groups. Section 35 of the constitution states: "The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed." Imagine how hard you'd fight for your rights to freedom of expression, assembly, religion or any other constitutionally guaranteed rights. That's what's going on here. Its a big deal for everyone.

Some of these rights extend back to King George III's Royal Proclamation in 1763, where the concept of Aboriginal Title begins our history. In British Columbia, outside the Douglas Treaties of the 1850s on Southern Vancouver Island, there simply weren't that many treaties signed. Which means that all the rights and title that was given to them in 1763 by King George III, and which was affirmed again in the 1982 Constitution, are still valid and in effect.

Aboriginal Title exits. Its a constitutional right, and it's just as important as any other constitutional right. These ignorant and racist attitudes towards Aboriginal Canadians has to stop.
 
Aboriginals are not Canadians. Some have duel citizenship to both Canada and the USA.

They will always be treated with distain as long as they have special rights that the average canadian does not have.

Not to mention this already went to the Supreme Court of Canada and it was ruled that FSC fishers would only take place after conservation goals are ment.

Whitebuck listed First Nation fisheries that are targeting early run chinook. They are endangered and are a conservation concern.

If you don’t think they are endangered the. You should try to go catch one. The test fishing Gilnet in the Fraser has only managed to catch one. The test fishing catch rate is much lower then aboriginals because it’s not targeting them on corners and bends in the river where a well place net can catch 100% of what goes by. But the historical catch rate of the test fishery is a good indication Of how much the stocks are in trouble.

They are stuck in a low class of wealth causing poverty, drug addiction ect.. that’s they problem I don’t think giving salmon to poor black people in the USA would solve their problems but it’s what our government is doing with First Nations.

Let’s help them out with cash and social programs.

The only reason the government has chosen to use salmon as the cash of reconciliation is because it’s easy but the stock is no longer in the shape it once was or capable of solving all the issue First Nation community’s have.

First Nations population and fishing power continues to increase, by population and added rights and ruling by our government.
 
The issue is not about native vs. non native,
it's about netting returning Chinook in the Fraser river.
If the reverse was happening and non-natives were netting
in the river,I would equally disapprove.
 
Aboriginals are not Canadians.

As I first mentioned, the levels of racism and ignorance are in full force and effect.

Emotional arguments, from people motivated by jealousy, hiding behind the guise of 'conservation.'

Who is intercepting adult fish on their way back to spawn says nothing of the juvenile fish who swam out four years prior. More can be done worrying about ocean survivablity rates than for adult return rates. Rather than blaming aboriginals for practicing their culture and exercising a constitutional right, go plant some eel grass in an estuary.
 
No ones rights trump the right of species survival. Greed knows no race or colour. Unless all harvesters start putting the health of the stock first, dividing it up will become real easy, half of nothing, quarter of nothing, what’s the difference!
 
When you talk to people from DFO and they tell you the only way a stock is going to survive is if they have a migration window that falls outside a First nation fishery. It does not take much to see where the stock is going to end up.

Also First Nations have Canadian Citizenship that does not make them Canadian. Canadians immigrated to canada, First Nations did not that is why they are afforded their extra rights and the right to form their own government and have different land claims.

It really comes down to if you have Status or not but that term is apparently considered racist now althoes it used to determine rights of a First Nations individual/member.

calling me a racist is just a new political tactic that our government and even ENGO's are doing when pushing political agendas. Have to stop fish farms if not you're a racist and not taking into consideration first nations land claims. Have to stop pipelines if not you're a racist and ignoring all the first nations that want them gone. ITs called redwashing even First Nations have a term for it.

How many First Nation groups out their want the stolo to stop their netting. I BET A LOT, In fact I know that the First Nations in the interior have chose not to hammer these stocks.
 
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