B.C. First Nations Fishing Rights - Supreme Court Ruling

[california]

What I get a laugh about is the soft bigotry of so called “progressives”. Basically white people with a superiority complex that tend to think of minority groups as lesser beings that need special treatment. They act as if these people can’t make it on their own without the help of the white man.

Maybe we don’t treat First Nations as mentally handicapped people and they play by the same rules as everyone else? Or have I got this wrong?

I don't think that is at the heart of it at all. What the Natives have won is for the most part in the courts with different governments in power. The Government has fought the cases and lost, but I think you can question the Liberals for just immediately accepting this ruling without analyzing it or considering taking it to the Canadian supreme court.
If you want to lay ultimate blame you can blame the the early settlers and the British government for not putting together treaties with the Natives. Often those treaties in other parts of North America were the result of war, and the natives usually being the loser had to sign an unfavourable treaty that defined their lands and rights as the conquered nation . That didn't happen in BC, Europeans for the most part came and just moved in with no treaties or agreements. Now the Natives unfortunatly for us, keep winning in court that their original presumed title to the land (or resources in this case) as the first inhabitants were never extinguished.

 

[spoiler]

I don't think that is at the heart of it at all. What the Natives have won is for the most part in the courts with different governments in power. The Government has fought the cases and lost, but I think you can question the Liberals for just immediately accepting this ruling without analyzing it or considering taking it to the Canadian supreme court.
If you want to lay ultimate blame you can blame the the early settlers and the British government for not putting together treaties with the Natives. Often those treaties in other parts of North America were the result of war, and the natives usually being the loser had to sign an unfavourable treaty that defined their lands and rights as the conquered nation . That didn't happen in BC, Europeans for the most part came and just moved in with no treaties or agreements. Now the Natives unfortunatly for us, keep winning in court that their original presumed title to the land (or resources in this case) as the first inhabitants were never extinguished.

Well I have been reading all of your posts since Iron Noggin first announced the court ruling for the 5 FN groups on the West coast of Vancouver Island. Let's face it, the whole issue as with most issues boil down to money! The main reason these 5 groups have been pounding the courts to let them sell fish commercially is to make more money. So one way of going at this is to decide how many people are to benefit and how much money they are expecting to make. Maybe the whole sportfishing industry is better off figuring out a way to pay these guys to stay off the water. You can be assured that all the salmon and other species of fish they are going to catch are of a much greater value to the sportfishing industry than what they will get selling on the open market. I know I don't have to explain to everyone on this forum about how big the revenue is in the sportfishing industry and how far reaching it is. Not only do the guides, fishing lodges, tackle and boat shops benefit but when people (myself included) come to Vancouver Island for fishing.
BC Ferries, gas stations, grocery stores , motels, hotels etc,etc,etc all benefit. If all these groups would join one common entity it would be a huge amount of voices and strength which is what's needed to get the government's attention. Right now we have all these little groups that are a bunch of tiny voices instead of one big voice. My biggest fear as mentioned by other members is that it won't be long before all of the FN bands along the Fraser and approach areas try to get the same rights to commercial fish. Once that happens on all our rivers it's all over but the crying!

 

[SpringFever552]

If all these groups would join one common entity it would be a huge amount of voices and strength which is what's needed to get the government's attention.

"Spoiler" alert..

aren't we already 1 group now called

"Tax paying Canadian citizens"

That pour billions into native affairs already?

 

[bigdogg1]

"Spoiler" alert..

aren't we already 1 group now called

"Tax paying Canadian citizens"

That pour billions into native affairs already?

This information first came online less than one month ago. I have read the ruling, well, scanned with a beverage, have read the posts here and elsewhere, and I have to say that at some level this topic has disturbed me at a very fundamental level. For me, it has boiled down to "2 wrongs do not make a right". What has occurred was an atrocity and I commend efforts to rectify and move FORWARD. Where I struggle is that my kids were born here, I was born here, my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents were born here...yet I feel that the concept of being a present-day Canadian citizen is not universal with this ruling. My rights (and my children's rights) as a Canadian, seem not to be the same aa other present-day Canadians. I have sportfished the West and East coasts of the island since the early 70's. Salmon management has been a hot stove topic since, and before that time. There are as many opinions and thoughts as there are those that pursue the salmon.

However, the piece that stays with me, and the piece that I cannot rationalize, is that I feel "less Canadian" and that we are being given a wrong to correct a wrong in hopes of making a right. This is a plan that can only fail and deepen the divide that already exists.

 

[fshnfnatic]

Great post bigdog.These are my sentiments exactly.I am myself fourth generation Vancouver Island with my great grandfather coming here in the late 1800's.I also believe that the FN didn't get a fair deal by todays standards,morals and ethics,but at the same time you have to realise that this was the way things were done 150 plus years ago and indignious peoples lands had been being exploited all over the world for a long time before first contact on our west coast shores.Not that it makes it right now,but
it was a perfectly acceptable thing back then,and that is how our great country came to be.And now, generations later, we are somehow being held accountable for something that our ancestors did.I'm sorry but in my way of thinking,the country they lived
and fished in before we came is long gone and this is Canada now and we are all Canadians and should all be granted equal rights and privileges.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Looks like their back at it....Second fishery attributed to the court case...I thought they were not allowed to mix their FSC fisheries and sale fisheries together...

Fishery Notice
Category(s):
ABORIGINAL - General Information
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
Subject:
FN0473-Demonstration Fishery - Salmon: Troll - First Nations - AABM Chinook - June 12, 2018 Opening



The Ahousaht, Ehattesaht, Hesquiaht, Mowachaht/Muchalaht and Tla-o-qui-aht
First Nations' (T'aaq-wiihak Nations') AABM Chinook salmon demonstration
fishery by troll will open June 12 at 00:01 hours until further notice.

This fishery is not open for vessels over 25 feet in length.


The following areas are open to vessels under 25 feet with the exception of
Rockfish Conservation Areas:


- Portions of Area 24: Subareas 24-6, 24-8, 24-9 and that portion of Subarea 24-
2 seaward of a line commencing at Starling Point Light (49°23.647 N, 126°13.849
W) then heading 270 degrees true West to the opposite shoreline of Sydney Inlet
(49°23.646 N, 126°15.742 W).

- Portions of Area 25: Subareas 25-6, 25-7, 25-15 and that portion of Subarea
25-13 seaward of a line commencing from a point (49°50.020 N, 126°57.906 W) at
the northeast entrance of Rosa Harbour continuing to a point (49°51.577 N, 126°
59.640 W) at the western entrance of Port Eliza.

- Portion of Area 26: that portion of Subarea 26-1 southeasterly of a line
running through Grassy Island from the shoreline (49° 57.067' N, 127° 13.365'
W) to the surfline (49° 54.755' N, 127° 16.123' W) that is a parallel to the
boundary between Area 125 and 126.

- That portion of Area 124 extending seaward from the surfline to 9 nautical
miles seaward of the surfline.

- That portion of Area 125 extending seaward from the surfline to 9 nautical
miles seaward of the surfline.

- That portion of Area 126 southeasterly of a line from Grassy Island, running
parallel with the Area 125 boundary, beginning seaward from the surfline (49°
54.755' N, 127° 16.123' W) to 9 nautical miles seaward of the surfline (49°
47.840' N, 127° 25.062' W).

Excluded Rockfish Conservation Areas are:

- Those portions of Subareas 125-2 and 125-3 that lie inside a line that begins
at 49°37.900'N 127°01.111'W in water then to 49°37.900'N 126°52.600'W in water
then to 49°33.500'N 126°52.600'W in water then to the beginning point (West of
Bajo Reef - Chart 3604).

- Those portions of Subareas 24-1, 124-3, 124-4, 125-1, 125-2 and 125-5 that
lie inside of a line that begins at 49°23.526'N 126°27.818'W north of Matlahaw
Point then to 49°19.500'N 126°23.900'W
in water then to 49°17.000'N 126°31.200'W in water then to 49°22.100'N 126°
44.700'W in water then to 49°25.067'N 126°34.598'W Hesquiat Peninsula then
following the southerly shore of Hesquiat Peninsula to the beginning point
(Estevan Point - Chart 3603).

- That portion of Subarea 24-6 that lies inside a line that: begins at 49°
13.560'N 125°57.887'W in water then through Morfee Island to 49°13.300'N 125°
56.750'W Dunlap Island then following the westerly shoreline of Dunlap Island
to 49°12.941'N 125°56.373'W Dunlap Island then to 49°12.100'N 125°57.048'W
Vargas Island then westerly following the shoreline of Vargas Island to 49°
12.600'N 125°58.132'W Vargas Island then to the beginning point (Vargas Island
to Dunlap Island - Chart 3603).

The available Chinook catch for this opening is 6,087 pieces.

Species and amounts permitted for sale:
Chinook: All Chinook retained for sale must be greater than 55cm fork length
(head on) and 44cm (head off).

Chum and Pink: Bycatch of Chum and Pink may be retained for sale.

Coho: Bycatch of hatchery marked Coho may be retained for sale.

Halibut: Bycatch of halibut may be retained for sale, with a daily limit of 1
piece per vessel to a maximum of 4 pieces per trip. The lesser of the daily
limit or the trip limit will apply. All halibut retained for sale must be
greater than 81.3 cm (32 inches) head on measured in a straight line, passing
over the pectoral fin, from the tip of the lower jaw with the mouth closed to
the extreme end of the middle of the tail or head off more than 61.0 cm (24
inches), measured in a straight line from the base of the pectoral fin at its
most anterior point to the extreme end of the middle of the tail. All halibut
sold will be counted against the commercial quota holdings of the T'aaq-wiihak
Nations.

Lingcod: Bycatch of lingcod may be retained for sale, with a daily limit of 2
pieces per vessel to a maximum of 8 pieces per trip. The lesser of the daily
limit or the trip limit will apply. All lingcod retained for sale must be
greater than 65 cm head on measured from the tip of the nose to the tip of the
tail or head off, greater than 53 cm measured along the shortest length of the
body to the tip of the tail. All lingcod sold will be counted against the
commercial quota holdings of the T'aaq-wiihak Nations.

Rockfish: A daily limit of 7 pieces per vessel to a maximum of 28 pieces per
trip may be retained for sale. The lesser of the daily limit or the trip limit
will apply. Quota will only be required for sale of the following rockfish
species: yelloweye, quillback, copper, china, and tiger rockfish. For all
other rockfish species not previously listed, quota will not be required for
sale. Retention of all rockfish will be mandatory (releases prohibited) and
catches above the sale limits will be attributed against each T'aaq-wiihak
Nation's FSC allocation.


All rockfish encountered in this fishery must be retained. Amounts of fish
retained above the sale limits described above and all other fish species not
permitted for sale and will be counted against the T'aaq-wiihak Nations' Food,
Social, and Ceremonial (FSC) allocations.

Retention of Sockeye is prohibited in this fishery.

Fishing shall be permitted by trolling with barbless hook and line gear only.

All harvesters must file a start fishing report (hail out) prior to
participating in the fishery by calling or texting 250-266-0418 or emailing
hail@taaqwiihak.ca or completing the report online at www.taaq.ca.

A vessel designated to harvest fish shall be identified by a T'aaq-wiihak decal
number and by affixing a T'aaq-wiihak flag that is clearly visible, legible and
unobstructed. Designation to partake in this fishery must accompany the
participant while fishing or transporting fish harvested in this fishery.

All fish caught in this fishery are to be landed at the designated landing
sites:
Zeballos Government Dock/Mid-Island Ice;
Lions Gate Fisheries dock, Tofino;
Fourth Street Dock, Tofino; and
Ahminaquis Boat Launch, Gold River.

Transferring of catch from one vessel to another is permitted provided the
transfer does not exceed the trip limit or the vessel cap. Transferring of
catch from one vessel to anther that exceeds the trip limit or vessel cap must
receive advance permission from the vessel master's First Nation's Fishery
Manager for the transfer to be authorized.

All participants must obtain a Landing Slip, in order to sell any fish caught
under the authority of this licence. All fish sold in this fishery must be
accompanied by a Sales Slip.

All fish retained for sale will be validated by dockside observers from
Ecotrust Canada. Harvesters must permit Ecotrust Canada dockside observers
access to their catch at landing sites for the validation procedure. T'aaq-
wiihak dockside observers will be sampling Chinook (and Coho when applicable)
for coded-wire tags as required at the Tofino designated landing sites. J.O.
Thomas and Associates dockside observers will be sampling Chinook (and Coho
when applicable) for coded-wire tags as required at the Zeballos designated
landing site.

All halibut retained for sale must be tagged by an Ecotrust Canada dockside
observer prior to sale.

All fish retained for sale and for FSC will be verified by Ecotrust Canada
dockside observers. Harvesters must permit Ecotrust Canada dockside observers
access to their catch for the verification procedure.

Vessel masters will maintain a logbook and submit a completed report to the
Ecotrust Canada dockside observer at each landing. Landing slips will not be
issued by the Ecotrust Canada dockside observers without the submission of
completed logbook reports.

 

[wildmanyeah]

T'aaq-wiihak vessel masters are reminded to refer to the communal licence
authorizing this fishery for complete details. Copies of the licence are
available from the DFO Resource Manager, Amy Ganton (250-720-4468) and the
T'aaq-wiihak Fisheries Manager, Saul Milne (250-725-3899).

T'aaq-wiihak Nations' staff and/or Fishery Managers will have a weekly call
with DFO on Tuesdays for an in-season review and to discuss the issuance of a
new license on Wednesdays at 00:01 hrs, if required.

Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC) is monitoring seabird by-catch to
determine potential impact on bird populations under current fishing effort and
bird numbers. Fishers are requested to submit all dead birds entangled in nets
to ECCC for species confirmation and DNA analysis to determine the colony of
origin.

Please call your local charter patrol to organize pick-up, drop carcasses off
at a local DFO office, or contact ECCC directly by calling the Wild Bird
Mortality Reporting Line 1-866-431-2473 (BIRD). Handle birds with gloves,
double bag dead birds. Label bag with date, time, location, fishery opening and
vessel name (Skipper name isn't needed). Alternatively, please send photographs
of birds with a reference object such as a coin, and the date, time, location,
fishery opening and vessel name to laurie.wilson@canada.ca. Questions: contact
Laurie Wilson (laurie.wilson@canada.ca, 604-862-8817).


Fisheries and Oceans Canada is interested in reports of sea turtles in BC
waters. By documenting sightings we are able to learn more about how, when,
and where these turtles are using our waters. If you see a sea turtle, please
call this toll-free phone number: 1-866-I SAW ONE (1-866-472-9663). Please
include information such as the type of sea turtle seen (i.e. leatherback), the
location, and time of sighting.


Fishers should be advised that whales can be encountered in the fishing area.
Fishers should take precautionary measures to avoid fishing near whales to
avoid potential contact with fishing gear. If a whale becomes entangled in
fishing gear, fishers should immediately call the Observe, Record, Report (ORR)
line at 1-800-465-4336. Fishers are advised not to attempt to free the whale of
the fishing gear as this can pose a serious threat to the safety of the fisher
and the animal.

Fishers are advised to notify local DFO managers or patrol vessels to report
abandoned, lost, or entangled gear.

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Amy Ganton, Resource Manager, Port Alberni (250) 720-4468



Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0473
Sent June 11, 2018 at 1621

 

[littlechucky]

It's only just begun...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...announce-ocean-protection-agreement-1.4715786

Who elected these guys?!?

 

[paguy]

If you want to see into the future of BC fisheries, Look no further than Washington state. We have been dealing with this since 1974 and the Boltd decision.

 

[cuttlefish]

If you want to see into the future of BC fisheries, Look no further than Washington state. We have been dealing with this since 1974 and the Boltd decision.

True that, paguy, to a certain extent. The difference being the words "treaty rights". Treaties are yet to be signed with FN in BC ergo, the need to reconcile.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Absolutely more devastating down south, Their take scales with population, Thats pretty devastating to conservation and recreational fishermen. Not only does it have to provide them with food but also with enough money to live like the middle class.

https://www.ecowatch.com/native-american-treaty-rights-to-harvest-salmon-2577431142.html

Supreme Court Affirms Native American Treaty Rights to Harvest Salmon

"The main question, however, was whether treaties signed in 1854 and 1855 guaranteed there would always be enough fish to provide 21 western Washington tribes with a "moderate living." The Ninth Circuit Court gave a qualified "yes" to the question, and now, the Supreme Court has affirmed that decision.

"Today's ruling shows that our treaties are living documents," Lorraine Loomis, chair of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission said in a statement. "They are just as valid today as the day they were signed.""

 

[paguy]

True that, paguy, to a certain extent. The difference being the words "treaty rights". Treaties are yet to be signed with FN in BC ergo, the need to reconcile.

True, But its easy to see your government much like my government is on the same path. So get ready for your two month salmon season and one week halibut season and get to crab and shrimp (AFTER) the tribes have got there share.

 

[california]

True, But its easy to see your government much like my government is on the same path. So get ready for your two month salmon season and one week halibut season and get to crab and shrimp (AFTER) the tribes have got there share.

The canadian case affirms FN commercial fisheries take precedent over sport, so FN eventually could be allocated all the allowable catch. Our season may be depend on if we can afford to buy some allocation from natives or not.

 

[halimark]

Well then all the people of area 5 in BC who's fishing and hunting licenses were made void due to the court ruling had their rights extinguished, so there should be a lawsuit started or maybe they are expected to move to an area where they can hunt and fish without paying trespass fees. That's good news.

HM

 

[Birdsnest]

I often disagree with you on these boards, I really, really wish I could on this, but sadly this does look like control of fishing will either directly or De facto through DFO, be in FN hands very soon.

The scariest part is that decisions can be handed around with zero science backing them. Awesome! (total sarcasm) So who is to blame?

 

[bones]

As already discussed in numerous other threads, a license is a privilege. Regardless there have been no fishing or hunting license made void in BC. Variation orders, like in any other fishery have become the tool for changing license contract conditions. Individual fishing and hunting rights in BC have not as yet been extinguished. License opportunities are available Province wide.

some 10-15 years ago Region 5 juvenile moose open season was open for one season then closed to no hunting, FN were given those rights and anyone else, was turned away. no more hunting region 5 moose for canadian citizens or licence holders. this was on top of several court appearance for shooting moose out of season and leaving waste in field.

 

[bones]

I really do try to stay the coarse and keep on the topic. I believe the discussion on this thread is related to Fishing.

Individual fishing and hunting rights in BC have not as yet been extinguished

 

[bones]

lol, you said hunting in your post then you change your mind......"Individual fishing and hunting rights in BC have not as yet been extinguished". sorry troop but your wrong and your the person going in circles here stop trying to make me look like the village idiot.

 

[california]

lol, you said hunting in your post then you change your mind......"Individual fishing and hunting rights in BC have not as yet been extinguished". sorry troop but your wrong and your the person going in circles here stop trying to make me look like the village idiot.

Normally I would ignore this, but specifically on a post not wanting to look like the "village idiot" maybe learn the difference between your and you're.

 

[bones]

Normally I would ignore this, but specifically on a post not wanting to look like the "village idiot" maybe learn the difference between your and you're.

Ya... I will have a chat with my phone about that sorry.