Emergency SFAB Meetings About Proposed SRKW Fishing Closures

[Tips Up]

At last nights SFAB meeting in Victoria the message was united. The whales need more fish period. Yes we will agree to the one year study to see what quiet zones will do to whale behavior. We also agreed to voluntarily implement the Bubble which means once you are made aware that whales are close you will turn off your sounder, pull your gear and move slowly out of their path. As I'm confident that the results of this study will prove that whales will favour fishing where the fish are regardless of boats in that area...that the results of this study be used to set future policy. In other words quiet zones will be proven to be a waste of time and that the best practice is the "Bubble" It will work and we can live with that. We also agreed to recommend moving the eastern JDF quiet zone back to the west side of Point No Point. It makes sense because the largest traditional area for commercial crab fishing is off the French Beach area. Those waters would not be a quiet zone with those boats in that area daily dropping and recovering pots off noisy aluminum hulled boats with big power. If the boundary stays at Sheringham as proposed and the crab boats fish inside the quiet zone the data would be skewed. The only other option would be forcing those boats out of that area....that would be a disaster. All those pots would end up between Kirby Creek and the mouth of Sooke Harbour....nobody wants that. We also agreed to let the Port Renfew SFAC make recommendations pertaining to the western border of the 20-4 quiet zone.

The Concern with "one year study" of quiet zone is it sounds a lot like the "experimental quota transfer program".
These things don't go away once implemented.

Do these quiet zones include all traffic including harassment by whale watching boats?

Sorry I was unable to make meeting last night due to work. I did watch the webinar and hope to make the meeting in Sooke.

 

[profisher]

We said if they make it a no fishing zone for all fin fish that we would seek to make it a quiet zone free of whale watchers too. If it is only closed to salmon fishing but you can still halibut fish in there it becomes more difficult to completely exclude others while we aren't doing the same. Not sure what the answer would be to that one.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Restrictions will continue until stocks recover

And if there is a big sockeye return this year to the Fraser chinook stocks with the same timing will be rapped in mix stock fisheries.

Also a lot of the First Nations fishing treaties that were signed during the conservative government. Have and will start to come up and this time the liberal will be the ones at the table. Historically the liberals have been more favourable to them.

Every party when in power negotiates treaties that involves a fishing component. For those bands that wish to enter the treaty process and they go on for years before being ratified. And then years before implementation takes a long time.

Territories for fishing and land have to be agreed to and often conflict with other bands perceived entitlements and. End up in conflict that the government has to negotiate. Then There are road blocks protests. Court cases interviner status in hearings etc.

How this will all play out under the liberals reconciliation agenda is anyone’s guess but it something to watch out for.

 

[california]

Just imagine if we were allowed to hunt seals like they do back east, and sell the skins, then donate some or all the money earned to Chinook enhancement programs.
Have a look at the prices of a few Seal skin items;

The quota for seals in the Atlantic is over 400,000 seals, they take less than 100,000 because they can't sell them. The ENTIRE industry is estimated to be worth only $1.5 million. Yes a coat is $3,900 but the company that buys the pelts, markets the coats, sells them gets that, not the seal hunters. Most countries with potential markets have banned the sale of seal products so there is a tiny shrinking market. However if you want to pay $3,900 for a seal skin jacket for your spouse and make her a social pariah have at it, make a statement! The reason they club the baby seals (now wait until the white coat goes away) on the ice not shoot them is to not damage the pelts with bullet holes which makes them worthless . A $3900 jacket cant have a bullet hole! Harbour Seals can swim at birth. Harp seal pups are out on the ice and concentrated so can be efficiently killed, processed on the ice and the pelts taken . There will be no "profit" in killing pacific seals, it will require shooting them and be costly, inevitably some animals will not be recovered, and some wounded. Images of bloated seal corpses and wounded animals washing up on Kits beach, Spanish banks, Ambleside, and wreck beach will soon create enough outcry IF the hunt were ever started , it would soon end as those images travel the globe.

Killing seals will not end the chinooks problems. There have been several times more smolts produced in hatcheries than what the seals eat. The low survival, esp of fat factory smolts is happening coast wide, and smolts the seals dont eat are likely to die anyhow. The most intense seal predation is in the SOG, yet ECVI rivers are the lone bright spot for chinook levels as they are classed as rebuilding by DFO. The Cowichan, with a large seal population (the subject of most predation studies) in the estuary is doing the best of all of them with returns over the 8,000 target for the last few years.. On the Cowichan they decreased hatchery production from over 3 million smolts in the 1990s to less than 1 million today, and even with all the seals (and mergansers, herrons, gulls, even racoons) eating them returning numbers are increasing, mainly due to habitat and water flow efforts. Meanwhile WCVI and Northern stocks where seal predation is far less are doing poorly.

 

[Derby]

The quota for seals in the Atlantic is over 400,000 seals, they take less than 100,000 because they can't sell them. The ENTIRE industry is estimated to be worth only $1.5 million. Yes a coat is $3,900 but the company that buys the pelts, markets the coats, sells them gets that, not the seal hunters. Most countries with potential markets have banned the sale of seal products so there is a tiny shrinking market. However if you want to pay $3,900 for a seal skin jacket for your spouse and make her a social pariah have at it, make a statement! The reason they club the baby seals (now wait until the white coat goes away) on the ice not shoot them is to not damage the pelts with bullet holes which makes them worthless . A $3900 jacket cant have a bullet hole! Harbour Seals can swim at birth. Harp seal pups are out on the ice and concentrated so can be efficiently killed, processed on the ice and the pelts taken . There will be no "profit" in killing pacific seals, it will require shooting them and be costly, inevitably some animals will not be recovered, and some wounded. Images of bloated seal corpses and wounded animals washing up on Kits beach, Spanish banks, Ambleside, and wreck beach will soon create enough outcry IF the hunt were ever started , it would soon end as those images travel the globe.

Killing seals will not end the chinooks problems. There have been several times more smolts produced in hatcheries than what the seals eat. The low survival, esp of fat factory smolts is happening coast wide, and smolts the seals dont eat are likely to die anyhow. The most intense seal predation is in the SOG, yet ECVI rivers are the lone bright spot for chinook levels as they are classed as rebuilding by DFO. The Cowichan, with a large seal population (the subject of most predation studies) in the estuary is doing the best of all of them with returns over the 8,000 target for the last few years.. On the Cowichan they decreased hatchery production from over 3 million smolts in the 1990s to less than 1 million today, and even with all the seals (and mergansers, herrons, gulls, even racoons) eating them returning numbers are increasing, mainly due to habitat and water flow efforts. Meanwhile WCVI and Northern stocks where seal predation is far less are doing poorly.

We'll currently there is this really nice seal living in the log Jam at Wash out eating everything it can on the Cowichan.. .. which is way up the river.... a new behavior ........... All though u have some great point, pinapeds are a contribution factor in the bigger picture stuff but are not the silver bullet .....

 

[california]

We'll currently there is this really nice seal living in the log Jam at Wash out eating everything it can on the Cowichan.. .. which is way up the river.... a new behavior ........... All though u have some great point, pinapeds are a contribution factor in the bigger picture stuff but are not the silver bullet .....

I do support what they do on the Columbia at Bonneville ladder, which is identifying specific problem animals and removing them. Removing that one on the Cowichan you mention and other specific problem animals that have learned a behaviour and are having oversized impacts I think would be a reasonable step to take. That is far different than the indiscriminate killing many want.

 

[california]

Tell me how much do you think an ENGO group could generate in donations for fighting to save seals?

I don't know how much they could get, but the amount they could get for eliminating the permit process (which is mainly issued to fish farms and if a seal is habituated to a man made structure like a fish ladder) is far less than what they would get for a large SOG wide kill which would eleict global donations and publicity. Certainly there would be opposition, but the SRKW situation gives some leverage to issue some permits for specific animals if the rationale is clearly communicated. Just issuing them and letting news come out when the shots are being fired will I agree be a disaster.

 

[Derby]

I do support what they do on the Columbia at Bonneville ladder, which is identifying specific problem animals and removing them. Removing that one on the Cowichan you mention and other specific problem animals that have learned a behaviour and are having oversized impacts I think would be a reasonable step to take. That is far different than the indiscriminate killing many want.

I would agree.. there should not be a cull or indiscriminate killing ..but area's which are identified as problem should have some sort of wildlife manage program put in play..

 

[Aces]

I would agree.. there should not be a cull or indiscriminate killing ..but area's which are identified as problem should have some sort of wildlife manage program put in play..

Remove them or say goodbye to salmon fishing. Any attempts at rebuilding the runs will fail with the huge populations of seals and sea lions

 

[tincan]

I certainly did not say that 'pinnipeds' don't consume many adult chinook salmon except those hooked by fisher.

I did say that 'harbour seals' don't consume many adult chinook salmon compared to other marine predators (orcas, sea lions, etc) and that is well supported by the top marine mammal experts. Do seals eat some adult chinook? Of course. But in context of the overall chinook returns to Southern BC it is a small percentage.

Best to just goolge "harbour seal diet" along with some of the researchers such as: Andrew Trites, Benjamin Nelson, Austen Thomas, etc. and you will find many journal articles and newspaper articles showing their work that support my claim above. I'm not the one doing the research... I'm just reading it and it's pretty damn clear that despite what some angry fisherman might think, seals are not having the huge impact on adult chinook that many claim is the case.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2015-0558#.WphZFXxG2Uk
http://www.int-res.com/abstracts/esr/v11/n1/p69-82/
https://marinesurvivalproject.com/research_activity/list/predation/

Where seals are having a massive impact on chinook salmon is in their first few months at sea as smolts. These same researchers are proving (via genetics, technology showing direct feeding rates, etc) that appx 40% of juvenile chinook in the Strait are being eaten by harbour seals. 40% of all juvenile chinook smolts is a massive number (some estimate it at 10-20 million smolts). This is where we, as conservationists, should be focusing our efforts IMO.

Hi tincan
I’m able to back up what I said with scientific journals published. You claimed pinniped don’t consumes many adult Chinook except the ones hooked by fishers are you able to back it up?

 

[bpsuls]

I was at last night's meeting, thanks for all the hard work that the SFAB guys put into this, they really know their stuff. Coming out of it in reflection, there are two points of concern for me. Ultimately we don't want closures anywhere as these don't solve the salmon supply problem. I do fish the jordan river area in the summer regularly so this is a bummer, but a further sacrifice to show that we have skin in the game is seemingly required (even though we already have plenty in my opinion). My concern #1 is: enforcement. Is the DFO going to really take enforcement of these areas seriously? Or are they going to enforce about as much as they enforce current laws everywhere else with their 2 man team that is overstretched? What i mean is, i never see officers out there. In the 9 years I've been on the water I've only been checked once, and it was at the ramp. These quiet zones in the middle of nowhere are useless unless the enforcement has teeth. Otherwise, their effectiveness will be degraded and they will come back to us in a year and demand more space. Particularly, those whale boats. They are constantly on those whales. Constantly. Doesn't seem right to me. #2 is the commercial guys. I didn't get a clear idea of whether they will be disallowed from fishing those areas as well. Otherwise, seems pointless. As someone pointed out already they have pretty noisy boats and the gentleman doing the presentation said they don't even have a restriction plan in place for them to his knowledge.
I was a little surprised at how small the gathering was in Victoria last night. I was expecting to not even get in the clubhouse! I am hoping in the future others will make more of an effort. I run a whole design department, and have two boys aged 1 and 3.5 so i know about being busy in evenings, but I made time for this because i want them to be able to fish with their kids someday too. Please, others should do the same.

 

[Aces]

I was a little surprised at how small the gathering was in Victoria last night. I was expecting to not even get in the clubhouse! I am hoping in the future others will make more of an effort. I run a whole design department, and have two boys aged 1 and 3.5 so i know about being busy in evenings, but I made time for this because i want them to be able to fish with their kids someday too. Please, others should do the same

This lack of participation everywhere, not just this meeting has been one of the biggest challenges for the people representing us Sport Fishermen. The powers that be don't believe that we have the numbers to make enough of a stink to stop them. This, as well as a lack of lobbying power in Ottawa are holding us back

 

[wildmanyeah]

To be fair without this forum, and members like Derby giving out information. I would of had no idea any of these groups existed, let alone how to contact or where to participate or even if participation or funding was needed.

I follow probably 20 or more different guides/groups/stores Facebook pages and other social media accounts and their is very little if anything that gets promoted besides the odd restoration or garbage clean up projects.

Maybe on the island people are more exposed to it but living on the mainland that certainly is not the case. If say I am a fishermen who does not go on the internet, Then that basically only leave tackle shops/word of mouth for group recruitment.

Last time I went into PNT, Army Navy, Barry; bait there was absolutely nothing to inform me that groups existed with maybe to the exception of the BC wildlife federation or ducks unlimited. To be fair ducks unlimited stuff is everywhere, My bank, Hotel lobbies anywhere you can stick up a painting for an silent auction. I have seen so much duck unlimited stuff everywhere and I don't even hunt.

Edit: I also own like 5 ducks unlimited prints

 

[calmsea]

You can agree to these proposed closures or bubbles or whatever but don't expect that to make any difference in the number of salmon whales will eat. They will still starve and DFO will still shut us down completely to squeeze the last lemon drop out of us. Only after we have been shut down it will be known that the rec fishery wasn't the problem. So fill your boots and agree to this non-sense and then whine again when they come back next year and ask for even more. I'd rather say NO and be on record for that and stand up for what I believe. Fix the real issues and leave us alone!

 

[chris73]

I was at last night's meeting, thanks for all the hard work that the SFAB guys put into this, they really know their stuff. Coming out of it in reflection, there are two points of concern for me. Ultimately we don't want closures anywhere as these don't solve the salmon supply problem. I do fish the jordan river area in the summer regularly so this is a bummer, but a further sacrifice to show that we have skin in the game is seemingly required (even though we already have plenty in my opinion). My concern #1 is: enforcement. Is the DFO going to really take enforcement of these areas seriously? Or are they going to enforce about as much as they enforce current laws everywhere else with their 2 man team that is overstretched? What i mean is, i never see officers out there. In the 9 years I've been on the water I've only been checked once, and it was at the ramp. These quiet zones in the middle of nowhere are useless unless the enforcement has teeth. Otherwise, their effectiveness will be degraded and they will come back to us in a year and demand more space. Particularly, those whale boats. They are constantly on those whales. Constantly. Doesn't seem right to me. #2 is the commercial guys. I didn't get a clear idea of whether they will be disallowed from fishing those areas as well. Otherwise, seems pointless. As someone pointed out already they have pretty noisy boats and the gentleman doing the presentation said they don't even have a restriction plan in place for them to his knowledge.
I was a little surprised at how small the gathering was in Victoria last night. I was expecting to not even get in the clubhouse! I am hoping in the future others will make more of an effort. I run a whole design department, and have two boys aged 1 and 3.5 so i know about being busy in evenings, but I made time for this because i want them to be able to fish with their kids someday too. Please, others should do the same.

Yup, we will fail because not only because are we incapable of forming strong alliances with like-minded other groups like whale watchers (who would love to see more Chinook in the sea) to become a stronger voice but because we like dividing our already weak force by asking for other areas to get shut down as well (some one up there asked why only area 18 and not 17, 20... as if that would help one area to throw another one under the bus!). Just shaking my head - so little common sense!

 

[Jencourt]

To be fair without this forum, and members like Derby giving out information. I would of had no idea any of these groups existed, let alone how to contact or where to participate or even if participation or funding was needed.

I follow probably 20 or more different guides/groups/stores Facebook pages and other social media accounts and their is very little if anything that gets promoted besides the odd restoration or garbage clean up projects.

Maybe on the island people are more exposed to it but living on the mainland that certainly is not the case. If say I am a fishermen who does not go on the internet, Then that basically only leave tackle shops/word of mouth for group recruitment.

Last time I went into PNT, Army Navy, Barry; bait there was absolutely nothing to inform me that groups existed with maybe to the exception of the BC wildlife federation or ducks unlimited. To be fair ducks unlimited stuff is everywhere, My bank, Hotel lobbies anywhere you can stick up a painting for an silent auction. I have seen so much duck unlimited stuff everywhere and I don't even hunt.

Edit: I also own like 5 ducks unlimited prints

There are some good points here.

Most, if not all the people I know personally that come out here to fish either with me or on their own have, or had no idea the sfab process exists. Nore do they know anything about any of the others. SVIAC, SFI and the others. This is true for many that live here and fish as well.

Most have no idea about ITQ’s, allocation, SRKW, salmon treaties, fisheries act, etc etc. One only has to look on this forums to see that it is the same few users commenting on almost every thread involving the issues.

As I type this, it occurs to me that the simplest way those of us that do know can start to help correct this, is to educate those we know and invite them to join us in attending a meeting or purchasing a membership. I know I tell anyone who will listen about this stuff. Most listen to be polite, but the lack of questions tells me they are not all that interested in most cases. Getting them to a meeting would be difficult. A 40$ membedship might be easier to get from a lot. ( cuddos to SVIAC on the timely manner in which they processed my membedship this week. My card arrived today.)

Maybe the groups may need to make a push to make themselves better known. I realize that takes $$$. With all that is attacking our ability to Preserve our sport , would some targeted media bursts be useful? Again I know , $$$. Just thinking out loud.

Anyway, thanks to those putting the time and effort in.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Bob Hooton posts a grim but accurate picture of the fishing pressures that thompson river steelhead face on the migration up the Fraser river. Thompson river and upper Fraser CHINOOK stocks are just as depressed and one of the main sources of food for the SRKW.

http://steelheadvoices.com/?p=851

1. The British Columbia population stands at approximately 4.7 M today.
2. The aboriginal population is approximately 226K or 4.8%. That number is comprised of three separate groups officially referred to as First Nations (155K), Metis (69K) and Inuit (1.6K).
3. Almost half of the aboriginal population is age 25 or under. This is about twice as many people in that age group relative to any other population group in BC. These figures mean the Aboriginal population is the fastest growing segment of the BC population.
4. Depending on which government web site one visits, there are different number of “distinct First Nations” in BC. The most commonly cited number is 198.
5. A Thompson River steelhead will encounter 36 FNs along the Fraser between Tsawwassen at the mouth of the river and Spences Bridge at the confluence of the Thompson and Nicola rivers. A Chilcotin steelhead will encounter many more.

Compliance by first nations in the area

http://steelheadvoices.com/?p=846

1. Fisheries that are exclusive to First Nations received the lowest level of enforcement monitoring in 2017 relative to any other year..
2. Recreational fisheries in the lower Fraser River received five times as much enforcement patrol effort as did commercial fisheries.
3. Over 100 illegal gill nets were seized by DFO officers patrolling the lower Fraser in 2017. I’ll go out on a limb here and assume the large majority of those nets were set by FN fishers. The fact that no charges were referenced for those seizures lends support to my assumption. There were 69 recreational anglers charged for fishing with barbed hooks over the same areas and times.
4. Ninety illegal gill nets were seized by DFO officers patrolling the Fraser between Chilliwack and Hells Gate. Apparently 15 of these seizures resulted in charges but there was no mention of consequences.
5. DFO noted that compliance among Interior Fraser First Nations was “relatively good for the sockeye fishery except for one community near Lillooet that protested and harvested approximately 13,000 summer run sockeye.” There was no mention of any consequences there either. One wonders how many Chilcotin steelhead may have ended up dead in this fishery.
6. Finally, and most importantly, here we had a senior DFO Conservation and Protection Division staff member at the podium addressing The Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat right in the thick of the emergency review of the status of those endangered Thompson and Chilcotin steelhead and the word steelhead never appears in his 32 slide Power Point presentation.

Fishing pressure in the small area by first nations

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/vancouver-sun/20081105/281715495452103

"between Mission and the Fraser Canyon — an area with 1,400 aboriginal fishermen and the potential for 700 gillnets to be in the water at one time." (this figure does not include lower Fraser River or Upper!)

 

[Cuba Libre]

2008......

 

[wildmanyeah]

2008......

yep it's worse now!

 

[profisher]

Calmsea did you go to either of the two meetings held so far?