SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yes and No.
Emergency SFAB Meetings About Proposed SRKW Fishing Closures
- Thread starter Whole in the Water
- Start date
Yes and No.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
This is also what DFO said in their webinar that it’s temporary for data. They are going of a bunch of recommendations from the UBC round table. They dicided not to make changes coast wide as they did not think it would effect the abundance of chinook that much and also because 75% of the chinook caught by sports fishermen that the whales eat are caught in area 20.
It’s not a surprise too, almost anytime someone asked for where to stay for great fishing everyone on here recommends them to lodges in area 20.
This is also a trial year because DFO knows in 2019 their will be changes to the pacific salmon treaty. I read that the USA has already asked for Canadian trollers to take a 15-30% reduction in TAC.
We have no idea what the deducting to the sports fishery will be if there is reductions for chinook in the pacific salmon treaty.
That’s also why in river escapement have remained the same.
That’s why I beleive we need to put up the biggest possible fuss we can now and start the process of rallying the troops. I haven’t seen any of these issues brought up on any guides websites of Facebook pages yet. Nothing on other fishing sites.
What are we waiting for the regulations to be in place? Then fight and DFO can be like well we already asked in consultation.
I would be very surprised if a starving Polar Bear would refuse to eat a plump Gulf of Georgia seal carcass? From what I understand many Polar Bears can no longer hunt because the ice packs in their area have melted. We have feed lots for both wild and domestic animals so why not Polar Bears?
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
That is because most are doing offline and in discussions face to face like the webinar you listened too. Social media isn't going to fix the problem. Its a millennial fantasy. Just like how this forum can't do anything. Time to just throw money in that hat and support a lobby group. If you don't like options we have now than form it yourself and just do it. Biggest thing we can do is just show up to meeting and speak our minds. Just my view.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
You should really review your post closely next time. That isn't what I said and now we know who you are SERENGETI. Sorry not playing games on this thread so it gets shut down. Please everyone go to meeting I am out.
tinboatrobb
Well-Known Member
seems to me that over the last few years very few fish showed up in area 19. maybe them problem is farther north.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
If that's not what you meant then okay I'll delete my post. My point was tho that social media should be used to get people to go to the meetings! and inform the masses of the issues.
and I am not SERENGETI or DAVE or Spop or other members who i've been accused of being..
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My letter sent to Ashley.
Ashley Dobko,
Ashley your email was made available through an online discussion about the southern resident killer whales and the actions DFO plans to implement this spring. As someone who has been on the water very frequently with these very whales since the late 60's I want to share my thoughts. Firstly DFO holds the lions share of responsibility for the SRKW populations decline and that will come out loud and clear if serious steps aren't taken soon. From allowing the capture from this population for aquariums without proper science being done to support the numbers taken, over fishing of mixed salmon stocks by the commercial fleet of the past, inaccurate accountability by river fishing by some lower Fraser FN bands (lets call it poaching, that is what it is called for the rest of us) lack of financial support of effective enforcement, lack of financial support of SEP and allowing wild salmon populations to be put at risk by foreign fish farm operations. Federal and provincial governments are also responsible for pollution levels that now compromise the reproductive health of these whales, also poor logging and mining practices that destroyed salmon runs...etc etc.
Now the minister is seeking to do something as the whales are a hot topic of the day. Once again its a too little too late. I fear that many wild pacific salmon runs will follow these southern resident whales into probable extinction. Of the three main problems that have been identified facing these animals the most critical is a stable food supply. The US government seems to get it and has recently announced that they will be producing 10 to 20 million new Chinook salmon through hatchery production to provide them with this food supply. Canada (DFO) continues to do nothing. Wild salmon policy or not we haven't even implemented any kind (effective of not) of recovery plan for the Fraser River. The plentiful Chinook runs from the Fraser River had been the stable food supply that attracted these whales to our local waters in late spring every year. The Fraser Chinook runs have dropped to levels so low in recent years that the SRKW now only send a few individual pod members into Juan De Fuca Strait and the Salish Sea on scouting trips. These scouting trips have been quick overnight in and out again fishing expeditions. These scouts find very few fish, leave and don't bring the rest of the pod members back inside to fish. They are now spending most of their fishing efforts outside of their traditional summer fishing waters and targeting more plentiful US bound Chinook stocks. They aren't out there because the waters are quieter due to a lack of boat traffic. As a sport fisherman I know what the whales know. Fishing for everyone and everything now sucks inside Canadian waters in the approaches to the Fraser River! If not for the US hatchery efforts there wouldn't be enough Chinook salmon to warrant the cost of owning a boat and paying for the fuel to go fishing and there likely would be fewer SRKW alive today.
I'm asking you to please see through the BS and do what is required now. Recommend to the minister that DFO quickly supports and ramps up SEP for Chinook salmon that will positively impact the numbers within the traditional foraging waters of the SRKW. This can be done while still minimizing the impact to existing wild salmon populations. An example of this is the Sooke River Chinook Salmon project that the South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition has already undertaken. (www.anglerscoalition.com) This group has a production goal of 2 million Chinook to be released from their sea pen in 2020 and each year after. These fish are intended to become a part of that stable supply of food for the SRKW as they forage inside Juan De Fuca Strait. Wild salmon populations are very important as well and there has to be timely, serious and effective action taken to restore their numbers. DFO has known about the plight of certain Fraser River Chinook stream types for more than a decade and yet no effective action has taken place to date.
What won't work. Just as severely restricting recreational fisheries to bring back 4-2 and 5-2 stream type Chinook salmon has been a total failure doing the same to make more Chinook available to the SRKW will be just as ineffective. I'm reminded of the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The numbers of Chinook that would be made available to the SRKW by further restricting (closing) south Vancouver recreational fisheries would only feed them for 2 weeks. This assuming they caught all of them which is impossible. As a recreational fisherman I want this problem resolved to the benefit of all that depend on healthy salmon returns and this includes the SRKW. I have grown up around these animals and have always admired them and respected them. Just so you know I have no problem with following the proposed bubble zone protocol being discussed. Turning off my sounder, pulling my gear and slowly moving away from them to allow them to forage more effectively is not a big deal. Will it make a difference? No! These whales have shown me time and time again in the last 50 years of fishing with them that they go where the fish are and regardless of boats. They will take fish off our lines and I have witnessed this many times. I'm still waiting for it to happen to me so it can be removed from my bucket list. If you want to see for yourself how killer whales are not bothered by boats and boat noise check out this video shot from a boat moving at speed.
I want these whales to do well and recover. Please support an effort to produce more enhanced fish in the short term and to implement effective policies to restore wild populations.
Rollie Rose/president
Sooke Salmon Charters Ltd
250-213-3055
sscl@shaw.ca
www.fishingbc1.com
Ashley Dobko,
Ashley your email was made available through an online discussion about the southern resident killer whales and the actions DFO plans to implement this spring. As someone who has been on the water very frequently with these very whales since the late 60's I want to share my thoughts. Firstly DFO holds the lions share of responsibility for the SRKW populations decline and that will come out loud and clear if serious steps aren't taken soon. From allowing the capture from this population for aquariums without proper science being done to support the numbers taken, over fishing of mixed salmon stocks by the commercial fleet of the past, inaccurate accountability by river fishing by some lower Fraser FN bands (lets call it poaching, that is what it is called for the rest of us) lack of financial support of effective enforcement, lack of financial support of SEP and allowing wild salmon populations to be put at risk by foreign fish farm operations. Federal and provincial governments are also responsible for pollution levels that now compromise the reproductive health of these whales, also poor logging and mining practices that destroyed salmon runs...etc etc.
Now the minister is seeking to do something as the whales are a hot topic of the day. Once again its a too little too late. I fear that many wild pacific salmon runs will follow these southern resident whales into probable extinction. Of the three main problems that have been identified facing these animals the most critical is a stable food supply. The US government seems to get it and has recently announced that they will be producing 10 to 20 million new Chinook salmon through hatchery production to provide them with this food supply. Canada (DFO) continues to do nothing. Wild salmon policy or not we haven't even implemented any kind (effective of not) of recovery plan for the Fraser River. The plentiful Chinook runs from the Fraser River had been the stable food supply that attracted these whales to our local waters in late spring every year. The Fraser Chinook runs have dropped to levels so low in recent years that the SRKW now only send a few individual pod members into Juan De Fuca Strait and the Salish Sea on scouting trips. These scouting trips have been quick overnight in and out again fishing expeditions. These scouts find very few fish, leave and don't bring the rest of the pod members back inside to fish. They are now spending most of their fishing efforts outside of their traditional summer fishing waters and targeting more plentiful US bound Chinook stocks. They aren't out there because the waters are quieter due to a lack of boat traffic. As a sport fisherman I know what the whales know. Fishing for everyone and everything now sucks inside Canadian waters in the approaches to the Fraser River! If not for the US hatchery efforts there wouldn't be enough Chinook salmon to warrant the cost of owning a boat and paying for the fuel to go fishing and there likely would be fewer SRKW alive today.
I'm asking you to please see through the BS and do what is required now. Recommend to the minister that DFO quickly supports and ramps up SEP for Chinook salmon that will positively impact the numbers within the traditional foraging waters of the SRKW. This can be done while still minimizing the impact to existing wild salmon populations. An example of this is the Sooke River Chinook Salmon project that the South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition has already undertaken. (www.anglerscoalition.com) This group has a production goal of 2 million Chinook to be released from their sea pen in 2020 and each year after. These fish are intended to become a part of that stable supply of food for the SRKW as they forage inside Juan De Fuca Strait. Wild salmon populations are very important as well and there has to be timely, serious and effective action taken to restore their numbers. DFO has known about the plight of certain Fraser River Chinook stream types for more than a decade and yet no effective action has taken place to date.
What won't work. Just as severely restricting recreational fisheries to bring back 4-2 and 5-2 stream type Chinook salmon has been a total failure doing the same to make more Chinook available to the SRKW will be just as ineffective. I'm reminded of the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The numbers of Chinook that would be made available to the SRKW by further restricting (closing) south Vancouver recreational fisheries would only feed them for 2 weeks. This assuming they caught all of them which is impossible. As a recreational fisherman I want this problem resolved to the benefit of all that depend on healthy salmon returns and this includes the SRKW. I have grown up around these animals and have always admired them and respected them. Just so you know I have no problem with following the proposed bubble zone protocol being discussed. Turning off my sounder, pulling my gear and slowly moving away from them to allow them to forage more effectively is not a big deal. Will it make a difference? No! These whales have shown me time and time again in the last 50 years of fishing with them that they go where the fish are and regardless of boats. They will take fish off our lines and I have witnessed this many times. I'm still waiting for it to happen to me so it can be removed from my bucket list. If you want to see for yourself how killer whales are not bothered by boats and boat noise check out this video shot from a boat moving at speed.
I want these whales to do well and recover. Please support an effort to produce more enhanced fish in the short term and to implement effective policies to restore wild populations.
Rollie Rose/president
Sooke Salmon Charters Ltd
250-213-3055
sscl@shaw.ca
www.fishingbc1.com
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Aces
Well-Known Member
They can’t be trusted
High Time
Crew Member
I would like to thank SpringVelocity for his comments regarding the proposed closure in Area 18. I think calling it "a little too extreme" is a gross understatement.The proposal covers the whole area from the south end of Pender to Active Pass. There is literally no where to fish for the local small boat owners. We have had a place on the Bluffs for the last 5 years. The fishery is pretty marginal and at times can be like a desert,with no feed ,no birds ,no seals and no fish. Over the last 5 years the sightings of Orcas has decreased to the point this last year where we saw no Orcas until the first week of August, and these were usually out in the centre of the channel heading towards Active Pass,probably heading for Sandheads. These pods were usually being escorted by from 10-20 whale watching boats which are continually roaring back and forth from Victoria,Steveston,Vancouver,and ports from the U.S. etc. Totally shutting down the whole area from May to October to all species seem completely ridiculous considering the small number of boats that fish there. What possible effect can we be having in removal of fish or disruption of feeding that could make any difference to the welfare of the whales. For the life of me I can't understand the rationale for this drastic action. It has got to be purely political. I am preparing a letter to email to this Ashley Dobko person and would appreciate any support from others out there. Sorry for the rant.... Thanks
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Rob H
Active Member
Great letter Rollie. I will send one off myself in the next couple days.
...Rob
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
In the last 2 years the SRKW whales have been at sand heads for like 2 days usually in september. There presence is pretty well documented in the vancouver reports forums. Yet they want to close the banana from May to September. You won't see much of a fight tho from people in vancouver as DFO has left open 29-3 where everyone fishes but truth be told that's where the whales fish too!
Also I have not seen discussed how the diversion rate effects the SRKW as the past years the diversion rate has been big to the inside!!
2017 September 22th ish Chum/Fall chinook (Harrison River)
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...elt-reports-thread.65036/page-121#post-848485
2016 September 28th ish Chum/Fall chinook Harrison River)
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...helt-reports-thread.62758/page-78#post-805726
2015 Augest 27th ish Chinook Summer run / Sockeye
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...helt-reports-thread.59475/page-70#post-749237
2014 August 14th ish Big sockeye return / Summer run Chinook
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...oast-reports-thread.55443/page-64#post-691064
2013 September 6th ish
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...ne-coast-fishing-reports-thread.51830/page-65
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searun
Well-Known Member
I would strongly encourage people to attend the SFAB meetings to get more information about the SRKW issue, and in particular the proposed study, and what they are attempting to accomplish through data collection using control areas. One set of closed areas to fishing, and another control area(s) open to fishing. Assessment includes comparing low use recreational areas to high use recreational areas. Additionally, we need to see differential feeding success in different areas under conditions where there is no rec fishing to disrupt feeding behaviours, and conditions/areas where there is higher rec vessel traffic that might disrupt feeding habits.
So I wouldn't fuss about certain areas like Area 29-3 for example...that is by design.
I would fuss over the study methodology, and in particular for how the closed areas with this study are set up for failure if we allow other vessel traffic (particularly whale watchers) to be in the "open to fishing" study area. If whale watching traffic is allowed into the study area it will severely disrupt the feeding behaviours and success of the actual study and not allow us to effectively differentiate how fishing activity alone impacts whale feeding behaviours/success. Whale watchers should be excluded entirely from the study areas being used to assess how recreational fishing impacts (or not) prey acquisition.
The restrictions we are seeing proposed in 2018, are an experiment to develop data, assess performance in comparable areas. That will inform decisions around what Management measures to employ going forward. Also a good read is the UBC Prey Workshop report, where it is clear there are a number of legitimate questions being explored now to assess the relative effectiveness of specific management measures.
We should also steer clear of "the sky is falling" wholesale panic. Always best to gather in the information and see where the data takes us. Similarly, a very good idea for people to get involved, learn as much as you can, then provide your input and ideas. DFO is engaging the rec community through the SFAB process, so grab a feedback form and please, please make your ideas known.
One thing to bear in mind is the data collected in 2018, will form the basis for planning future management measures that would be employed going forward in future years to a greater number of areas. So if you think the impacted areas are restricted to where the proposed 2018 measures are happening this year....think again. So what we should all want and need is good quality data that will help define the best practice approach to be used in a broader plan to achieve a strong balance between the most effective SRKW recovery strategies, achieving public support and maintaining socio-economic opportunities.
So I wouldn't fuss about certain areas like Area 29-3 for example...that is by design.
I would fuss over the study methodology, and in particular for how the closed areas with this study are set up for failure if we allow other vessel traffic (particularly whale watchers) to be in the "open to fishing" study area. If whale watching traffic is allowed into the study area it will severely disrupt the feeding behaviours and success of the actual study and not allow us to effectively differentiate how fishing activity alone impacts whale feeding behaviours/success. Whale watchers should be excluded entirely from the study areas being used to assess how recreational fishing impacts (or not) prey acquisition.
The restrictions we are seeing proposed in 2018, are an experiment to develop data, assess performance in comparable areas. That will inform decisions around what Management measures to employ going forward. Also a good read is the UBC Prey Workshop report, where it is clear there are a number of legitimate questions being explored now to assess the relative effectiveness of specific management measures.
We should also steer clear of "the sky is falling" wholesale panic. Always best to gather in the information and see where the data takes us. Similarly, a very good idea for people to get involved, learn as much as you can, then provide your input and ideas. DFO is engaging the rec community through the SFAB process, so grab a feedback form and please, please make your ideas known.
One thing to bear in mind is the data collected in 2018, will form the basis for planning future management measures that would be employed going forward in future years to a greater number of areas. So if you think the impacted areas are restricted to where the proposed 2018 measures are happening this year....think again. So what we should all want and need is good quality data that will help define the best practice approach to be used in a broader plan to achieve a strong balance between the most effective SRKW recovery strategies, achieving public support and maintaining socio-economic opportunities.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
That was a great post thanks for posting ting it up.
Perhaps the recreational fishers can help by documenting where, when and how many whale watching vessels are bagging the whales.
Better yet video tape then when you see them out there chasing whales. It’s like cowboys on a cattle drive. I’ll video tap when I’m out their this year and put it in YouTube.
High Time
Crew Member
Searun,your argument comparing fishing and non-fishing areas doesn't hold much water in area 18 where the whole area is closed to all fishing for 5 months! As regards disturbance,virtually every time a pod of whales appears in area 18-4 there is a fleet of whale watchers on their butts herding them along.The other factor regarding disturbance in the area is the location of the Customs office in Bedwell Harbour.In the summer months when there is a possibility of whales transiting, there is a constant flow of American boats clearing customs and going by heading north up the bluffs. Do you think I am wrong getting a little choked about the proposal for area 18?
Yes be careful who you try to throw under the bus. The whale watchers are also pushing for more Chinook salmon in the water not curtailing the fishing of them. If you want to get into a pissing match with them we will both loose. Some will say they harass the whales and they will counter with we catch their dwindling food supply. How do we, them or the whales win in that scenario?
High Time
Crew Member
My main point is that everyone else in this proposal is getting accommodated with productive fishing areas except the small group that fishes Pender Bluffs. Comparing fishing and non-fishing areas, my #ss.... How would the folks that fish 29-3, 20-1, and 20-5 react if those areas were included in the closures? DFO has thrashed the area where they think they will get the least resistance and gain some brownie points with all the ECO groups. Typical government political move. Well this citizen is not going to go quietly. Stand by....
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