immature Chinook salmon

It's quite obvious that california knows little about current hatchery operations. With a little bit open mind and a visit at one of the leading facilities in BC and a chat with some of the very knowledgeable volunteers there I think he will rethink some of his abstract statements here. ;)
 
Many of our would be returning adult Chinook are taken in the Alaska troll fishery...lets call it even and move on.
 
The hatchery in Rivers Inlet is case in point. Keeping the world famous River's Inlet giant Chinook salmon gene pool from extinction. Using good practices of matching larger fish with each other for egg and sperm collection. Something that was seldom done anywhere else and should have been...we wouldn't have all the smaller fish we have now.
 
Not only is this now a concept at many facilities, Rollie, but hatcheries now typically spread out their releases of smolts, spatially as well as timely to NOT create this one time surge of out-migrating smolts that california seems to be stuck on. Many also experiment with parts of their smolts in ocean sea pens at varying retention times which eliminates the decimation by seals in the river and estuary - with excellent return rates (Nootka as one example). There is a lot more to it than california wants to make you believe.
 
In certain areas of the coast, especially the Strait of Georgia and JDF, juvenille chinook survival is THE issue we should be concerned about if WE (collectively) want there to be healthy, diverse, sustainable chinook populations..... as well as the corresponding chinook fisheries to go along with them. If we are losing around 50% of juvenile chinook from the time they reach the estuary to the time they leave the Strait (which new technology is showing is true) this is a big problem. As has been discussed a lot, the Salish Sea Marine Survival Project is pointing to many issues (seal predation rates being at the top) that are causing such a huge % of juvenile chinook to die. While mortality from rec fishing and catching juveniles is probably not a significant % of the loss it certainly is some % and thanks to @Fishtofino for acknowledging it.

Simply increasing the number of hatchery fish will not solve this problem. In the SOG/JDF/Puget Sound areas the number of fry leaving rivers/streams/hatcheries is at/near an all time high. Producing baby chinook is not the main issue. The issue is these baby chinook at now dying at a much high rate than they did just 20 years ago. Hopefully some definitive answers to this issue will come shortly and be presented to DFO and others to act on. The rec fishing sector is not to blame for this change in juvenile chinook survival. However, the rec sector is also not immune from having effects on salmon and we need to speak honestly about what is happening or else we (rec sector) start to lose our credibility.

But maybe more Chinooks would survive to a mature fish if they weren't killed as an under size? That is merely the premise of my original idea.

I knew this would not be a popular subject but I've said my piece.
 
All the hero pics on social media right now are slowly changing my mind on this subject or maybe its just jealousy lol.
 
In certain areas of the coast, especially the Strait of Georgia and JDF, juvenille chinook survival is THE issue we should be concerned about if WE (collectively) want there to be healthy, diverse, sustainable chinook populations..... as well as the corresponding chinook fisheries to go along with them. If we are losing around 50% of juvenile chinook from the time they reach the estuary to the time they leave the Strait (which new technology is showing is true) this is a big problem. As has been discussed a lot, the Salish Sea Marine Survival Project is pointing to many issues (seal predation rates being at the top) that are causing such a huge % of juvenile chinook to die. While mortality from rec fishing and catching juveniles is probably not a significant % of the loss it certainly is some % and thanks to @Fishtofino for acknowledging it.

Simply increasing the number of hatchery fish will not solve this problem. In the SOG/JDF/Puget Sound areas the number of fry leaving rivers/streams/hatcheries is at/near an all time high. Producing baby chinook is not the main issue. The issue is these baby chinook at now dying at a much high rate than they did just 20 years ago. Hopefully some definitive answers to this issue will come shortly and be presented to DFO and others to act on. The rec fishing sector is not to blame for this change in juvenile chinook survival. However, the rec sector is also not immune from having effects on salmon and we need to speak honestly about what is happening or else we (rec sector) start to lose our credibility.
Well said and I agree 100%
 
The hatchery in Rivers Inlet is case in point. Keeping the world famous River's Inlet giant Chinook salmon gene pool from extinction. Using good practices of matching larger fish with each other for egg and sperm collection. Something that was seldom done anywhere else and should have been...we wouldn't have all the smaller fish we have now.
I believe they and the Quinsam Hatchery use parental-based tagging - along with coded wire tags. As I wrote, previously:

Microsatellite DNA (often single nucleotide polymorphisms, or SNPs) are used to perform parental analysis - where the progeny of the hatchery fish can be identified by the unique DNA signature of their individual parents - to assess returns and success of hatchery operations w/o additional external/internal tags being applied. It's a newer DNA application that provides equivalent information as CWTs, but without the limitation of small CWT samples sizes - and should also be more cost effective (cost of analysis is ~$20/fish for the SNP genotyping).

You could also stagger release dates/sizes and see effects (3-5 years later) of altering hatchery protocol.

Quinsam Hatchery has gone that way now: http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/cooking-up-a-recipe-for-larger-fish/

I believe that they are similarly looking at the Puntledge River summer-run Chinook salmon wrt PBT...

It seems to me some people wish to unequivocally characterize all hatcheries and all hatchery operations as either black or white. I instead see many shades of grey - and the very best combination would be using stock assistance in conjunction w habitat restoration and PBT - for a limited time - with discrete measures of success like the Cowichan Hatchery/Watershed.
 
FYI down here in WA we don't blow it off/let it go/move on. Our winter fishery just got shut down because too many undersized Chinook were being caught. Test fisheries will determine when it re-opens.
 
Wildman you do understand those are Thompson and lower fraser jacks you are catching off mouth of The Fraser right?
 
Wildman you do understand those are Thompson and lower fraser jacks you are catching off mouth of The Fraser right?

What post are you referring to? the 4-10 pound jacks in the winter or the 5-20 pound jacks in March to June or the 10 inch 1/2 pound grills in the summer?
 
yeah there 100% local to the fraser river estuary and local net pens. what's your point? That they should close down the area 28 and 29?
 
White Buck...U do realize that u posting shut down the nets on the forum that it would not stop the netting..second of all the first nations have access to the fish via the courts.. so u need to get over it.... now if you want to talk about the first nations need to be more accountable and regarding netting and handling catch perhaps....but I can tell u stories of our and all sectors needing to do that..... the first nations have certain rights period... agree or dis agree it is a fact of life that they are a partner in the resources as we are too...............
 
I have no problem stopping fishing, but only if the genocidal netting stops within the Fraser. Restricting us while fish are getting wiped out aint conservation...
 
yup... I feel your frustration... DFO has no resources & the current manage group that is taking care of the Fraser is total mis managing the river or so it seems.. ........ if it keeps going there will be no fish left... I do know u get more of a inside story then most of us on this forum and I can see your frustration..... As someone that is involve & know many of those that our involved.... we get the finger point at the rec. sector about our stuff so we must continue to keep our house in order....... The First Nations have the right to execute there rights to the fisheries... My personal believe the courts do need to balance this out as tax paying Canadian citizen, we also have a right to access to the resources also...seems at this time the pendulum has swung to the far right but we are seeing it work its way back to balance... U should and will be seeing some big changes most likely coming to the manage of the Fraser and I watch with great interest on how all the groups tackle this... but time will tell and we must remember change always takes time ....
 
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Hey Derby it's been years since i fished in winter - they don't taste very good & rarely pop the release, so zero interest to me. I would guess that 100 boats per day on weekends. Every body of saltwater in the state is closed April 1 - July 1 except sometimes the ocean opens in June.
 
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