Anglers eagerly await return of pinks

[Nimo]

Quote from TC today:
Venture seeks to revive sport fishery by releasing hatchery-reared fry
Sandra Mcculloch, Times Colonist
Published: Monday, February 11, 2008
They're growing fast now, and the 250,000 pink salmon fry have lost the egg sacs from their bellies.

It's starting to look like about 8,000 of them might survive a two-year journey to the open ocean and return to be caught on a fishing line in Cowichan Bay.

Paul Rickard is optimistic that a venture to release pink salmon from a net pen in Cowichan Bay this spring will bring a thriving sport fishery back to the seaside community south of Duncan.

This is a joke. Let's release thousands of pink fry just in time for 2010 and hide from the World the incompentence and environmental disasters including fish farms and overfishing perpetuated by our governments. Does anyone remember expo 86'? Coho Everywhere. They released more coho fry to be adults for that event than any other year (at least that was our experience in CR.) We never had it so good. It was all down-hill from there. What was it... 2-3 cycles to total collapse and closure of the coho sports fishery? (reminds me of the Broughton predictions.) The fish couldn't be worse off.

[walleyes]

So why don't they do this every year,, why just for special events..

[Nimo]

I haven't followed it closely but I understand that they are putting this out as a "test." It's being promoted to various areas including the Victoria waterfront as a potentially ongoing program. Reading the article further, these fish will not spawn, they are to return to the community that raised them and sit near the beaches until they are caught. It's called a "put and take" fishery; I'd coin it "smoke and mirrors."

Why don't they do it every year? It's politics, tourism and money, but not necessarily in that order. It's way too expensive and there's no percentage in it. The fishery is not self sustaining and there's no way to directly measure the financial gain.

It's an insult to the small communities including the native villages that once depended on the salmon for their livelihoods and indeed sustenance.

I guess a long answer to your short question, sorry Walleyes. I think I'll stop there.

[walleyes]

Thats a fine answer nimo and thx.. Its funny how our governments have the money to shove into something like this and not into something more sustainable.. We go through similar things out here in A.B. with our Walleye.. Our government has basically made it illegal to keep one to eat but do you think they restock any lakes for us ?? oh no can't do that,, well very few anyways.. Mean while our licencing fees and tags keep going up, they say the money go's for conservation,, what conservation ?? more likely it go's to give themselves a raise.. Why they are reluctant to put the money directly back into our fisheries is beyond me..

[chris73]

Why wouldn't those pinks look for a close stream and actually do spawn? Maybe they will go up the Cowi and reproduce?

[Nimo]

According to the article: "The pink salmon will soon be transferred from the hatchery to a net pen off the Blue Nose Marina where they'll double in size before their release.

They'll return in a couple of years to be caught by the sports fishery. The fish won't spawn and reproduce because the waters of Cowichan Bay are too warm for their liking."

I wrote a great rant and it dissapeared. Anyway, I'd bet my hard earned dollars that the project won't live past 2010. The government will cite "newly emerging" scientific reports regarding fish farms and pink salmon - other needs for the eggs, lack of funding, etc etc.

How are 8000 non-spawning pinks returning to Cowichan Bay going to restart the Cowi's sportfishery? This is politically motivated disguised as a disguise.

[LastChance]

Seeing as you haven't been allowed to fish in the bay for some time, this ought to be interesting. Besides, it is JUST what we need, more damn pinks destroying bait as we target "real" fish.

[fishspoon]

when the pinks are in, it would be interesting that many avid flyfishers, young, old will have a good time catching pinks in the bay.

[Time]

The Cow Bay effort is not a "2010" adventure.
Intent is to have an ongoing fishery similar to what is occurring up-island.It is not DFO driven. In the Cowichan area the SFAB members seem to be the push behind it. The up-island pink rearings are also community driven.

Why Pinks?
Not sure exactly of all of the reasons, but I would guess:
Can be done without too much being required of DFO.
Relatively quick turnaround (2 year cycle).
Provides angling opportunities.
Pinks do not spend their first year in the freshwater rivers and streams. As we all know, freshwater habitat is, and has been, seriously degraded. The chinook, coho, and sockeye all require that first nurturing year in fresh before heading for the salt. Pinks (and chums) head almost immediately to sea, so I would think they have a much higher survival rate.

And they are 'real fish'.

Increased angler involvement and awareness, even if it is just for pinks, may lead to greater public recognition and pressure on politicians and DFO to enhance, maintain, and restore the once great runs of all samon species.

[Nimo]

Time: I agree with your last paragraph that it may provide awareness,and therfore increased enhancement etc, but it has to be heck of a coincidence that the province is putting money into this with a timing of 2010. And as for the fishing of them from shore, sure I think that would be fun, but not even a good bandaid.

I guess time will tell (no pun intended.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

[chris73]

The argumentation why they wouldn't spawn in the cowi is somewhat fishy. They say because the waters of the Cowichan Bay are too warm. Well, if it's too warm for their liking why should they come into the Bay then and be willing to strike a lure? If they meant that the Cowi River is too warm - pinks go into the Campbell River, Quinsam, Fraser and tributaries etc. and I doubt that these rivers are colder than the Cowi.... Here is something not right and it would not surprise me to see pink salmon spawning in Cowichan River some years down the road...

[Oglthorpe]

Time has it right. This is not a government funded project. As for claiming this is for 2010, last time I checked, there are no salmon in the rivers in February.

We have been producing pinks for the Nanaimo for the last couple of years and have seen good returns. They will go into the Cowichan, and isn't a bad thing. They will be the first salmon to return to the river, it may be too warm for fetilization to take place, or they get dug up by the chums, but some may take, and the dead pinks and eggs add important nutrients to the system that can only help the trout, steelhead and coho.;)

[bigchrome]

Oglthorpe

Is it true pinks reduce the number returns for chinooks and other species???

[Oglthorpe]

Not that I know of. They take a different migration route far offshore and don't compete much.

[Nimo]

Sorry, but again to quote the TC today: "The community, local government and the province have backed the project financially, coming up with the $8,000 to $10,000 needed to get things up and running."

My comments aren't actually about the Cowichan Bay project which may have merit on its own - undoubtedly has local people volunteering and working very hard to see it through (and to them I would apologize.)

It's more the fact that here we sit watching the salmon in our rivers dry up and we turn around and plant what the paper cites is a non-sustaining non-spawning run. And 2010 is not just about February for BC.

Actually, now that I think about it again, maybe the Province will convince DFO to lay off large runs of sockeye and pinks for that year and we will all be rolling in humpy slime. Oh, the glory! :)

Nimo

[RobTufnail]

i still dont see the point in having fish that wont even spawn
waste of money in my opinion

[bigchrome]

take the ten G's and put it back in the steely program [^]

[highlights]

Esquimalt anglers dumped a bunch of Nitinat chinook into the Ogden point area off Victoria some years ago. Those fish lingered around. None of those fish really had anywhere to go when they returned. Damn they were big. Fish in the 30-40lb range were common and it was a blast. So in some cases it can have some positive results. Be interesting to see what happens.

[juandesooka]

C.Angler beat me to it -- seems the same as stocking urban lakes with "you catch 'em" trout. Yes, a non-sustaining expense, and yes, an outdoor recreational opportunity for all kinds of people (think $10 walmart casting rod, a buzz bomb, and an afternoon of family fun). If mostly volunteer-driven, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

But since we're on the subject of pinks, I have a question maybe someone can answer. The odd year Fraser run is massive and I believe the even year run was completely wiped out decades ago by a landslide. I'm curious why the even year run wasn't restocked, because pinks seem to be pretty easy to grow. Is it because they are "just pinks"? Undesirable competition with other species for food/space? Anyone know? Because if seeking to develop more recreational fishing opportunities, that's a pretty easy and accessible fishery (with apologies to the slime haters...)

[likwit]

quote:Originally posted by highlights

Esquimalt anglers dumped a bunch of Nitinat chinook into the Ogden point area off Victoria some years ago. Those fish lingered around. None of those fish really had anywhere to go when they returned. Damn they were big. Fish in the 30-40lb range were common and it was a blast. So in some cases it can have some positive results. Be interesting to see what happens.


do they still do this? i thought so, but i may be mistaken...

[marula]

Im with you juandesooka, it would be great to have a pink year every year. Great smokers. Im thinking the commercial value is not great enough to warrant funding it but with the fall of stocks of the chinook / coho / sockeye you would think the time is right now.

[fishspoon]

Highlights,

Yeah...two guys were out fishing for coho/chum just outside Victoria waterfront in mid-Oct several years ago, it was a suprise that they reeled in a 60 pound silver spring! Most Victorians believed it came from Esquimalt Anglers's salmon project.

Or I was told it may come from Fraser River. who knows?

[c.r.angler]

quote:Originally posted by juandesooka



But since we're on the subject of pinks, I have a question maybe someone can answer. The odd year Fraser run is massive and I believe the even year run was completely wiped out decades ago by a landslide. I'm curious why the even year run wasn't restocked, because pinks seem to be pretty easy to grow. Is it because they are "just pinks"? Undesirable competition with other species for food/space? Anyone know? Because if seeking to develop more recreational fishing opportunities, that's a pretty easy and accessible fishery (with apologies to the slime haters...)



[size=4]The Fraser has never had even year pinks-as far as I know. The line for pinks both years is around say...Nile Creek. Most places south only get Pinks in odd years while north of the Island they are only even years. North Island recieves pinks every year in most systems with even years being generally bigger. Then line is around Pt. Mcneill. The Cluxewe gets aprox. the same amount year to year(a few more in even years) while the Quatse in Port Hardy gets a huge run in even years and almost non-existant in odd years. They actually tried to stock even year pinks in some fraser Tribs. years ago that didn't take. The Coqutlam is one for sure. That being said, I have seen a couple in the Thompson in even years-we're talking only a few in my life. I figured they were lost or lived and extra salt....could be decendants of this lost strain you're you're talking about? I've seen lost salmon in strange places before-like sockeye in small west coast streams with no lake-who really knows?[/size=1][/size=2][/size=4]

[chris73]

Last year I was told that there could be some increased pink opportunities for southern VI anglers in years to come - if all goes well. The few even year pinks in the Juan de Fuca Strait consist of Pudget Sound pinks and apparently the US is trying to boost those stocks - with some success so far from what I have heard.

[r.s craven]

quote:Originally posted by fishspoon

Highlights,

Yeah...two guys were out fishing for coho/chum just outside Victoria waterfront in mid-Oct several years ago, it was a suprise that they reeled in a 60 pound silver spring! Most Victorians believed it came from Esquimalt Anglers's salmon project.

Or I was told it may come from Fraser River. who knows?


I saw a picture of that fish, it was dark as an old boot...
milling about with no place to go

[walleyes]

I know I wouldn't mind seeing a few Pinks around every year.. Having a couple of them on in a day is better than washing hooks all day for nothing.. The few Pinks we kept last summer and vacuum packed are tasting pretty good right now... As far as table fare go's give me a 5# Pink over a 30# Chinook any day...

[Fog Ducker]

I think this is a great idea. it provides a decent accessible sport fishery at a relatively low cost. as well wil minimal effect on wild stocks.

It is becoming more apparent that hatchery bred fish are not as well suited for survival and when they interbreed with wild stocks may cause these poor genes to be passed on. So the fact that they dont spawn can in some ways be considered to be a good. on the other hand if they do spawn go up the river they are providing nutrients to the river which will help other species in the lower river. And they will not have a detrimental effect on other species as they are generally the first to spawn and generally stick the lower reaches of the river, as well as someone else mentioned they have no instream residence time (once their egg yolk is used up they emerge and go to sea, so do not compete for vital instream habitat which is considered the limiting factor in production on Many VI rivers for stream type chinook, coho and steelhead which overwinter in the stream/river.

As well someone mentioned that the fraser has one year very large pink year, I believe it has always been like this. Pinks are unique in that their life histories do not vary at all. all pinks are two years old all the time. therefore in order to try and stock a odd year river with even year fish they need to obtain the broodstock from another watershed. This cross watershed movement is generally frowned upon.

Bang for your buck this is about the best thing out there. There was a return here in Nanaimo this year and it was a great success!.. I say go for it!

One thing in dont quite understand is how they get away with it, since salmon ranching is illegal in Canada, which this effectively is.

[Tips Up]

IMO
Shouldn't mess with mother nature.
She is mother of all mothers.

Everything has a ripple effect. These fish have to eat something.
Also they are food for something and may attract other somethings...

I would rather see $$ spent helping nature along not changing it.

Just my opinion.

Tips

[fishhawk8]

Why don't they make the pinks triploids? Then we can catch 20 lb pinks[:0] with our flyrods off the beaches in 2 or 3 years.:D

Fact is, I don't know if they can even do this and/or what the repercussions would be, but heck, they do it with trout, why not the salmon.[B)][B)][B)][xx(]

[RobTufnail]

quote:Rob-- do you feel the same way about lake stocking triploid sterile rainsbows?

i've had fun fishing stocked rainbows before.
But if a salmon isnt caught or eaten by a predator i simply think it deserves to go into a stream and spawn.
the thought of fish milling about until they die just isnt appealing to me, and i would rather see the money and effort be put towards helping sustainable stocks in need of the help.

[Highliner]

quote:Originally posted by Tips Up

IMO
Shouldn't mess with mother nature.
She is mother of all mothers.

Everything has a ripple effect. These fish have to eat something.
Also they are food for something and may attract other somethings...

I would rather see $$ spent helping nature along not changing it.

Just my opinion.

Tips


I'm with you Tips. God has a special way of straightening us out if we get in the way.

[Nimo]

I for one am open to enlightenment. I understand that there are successful pink programs on the Oyster (hell of a good shore fishery of spawning salmon), the Puntledge, and someone mentioned the Nanaimo (and I'm sure there are others.) That's enhancement and along with enhancement comes restoration. These are great programs adding to the overall health (I trust) of all five species, nutrients to the river systems etc - not to mention the revival of the fishery.

"when you consider the issues that we ignore that are crucial to our fisheries."

I also agree that we are not at all prepared for what we would have to do to as fishermen to give the stocks their very best chance (in spite of the overwhelming odds.) This would include a serious self-imposed cut back on our kills. We pound these fish from coast to coast. Slapping bandaids with non-spawning salmon might give us another bang or two but does nothing but obscure the reality that these stock are facing.

[slimey handshake]

Sure will be great when they move those fish into the pens and the seals start to eat them instead of chasing our steel!!!!!:D