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View Full Version : Do you have to pay HST on a used boat?



TenMile
11-22-2010, 01:44 PM
Hypothetically speaking (for now) -- but if a guy were to buy a used boat off a private seller -- do we now have to pay HST on the total purchase price?

r.s craven
11-22-2010, 01:56 PM
I believe you do. if it was bought prior to July 2010
it would only be 7%.
The gov't seems to catch this shortly after you license and get your
"BC/K "numbers.

A buddy who bought his boat in 2005 and just recently licensed it
last spring magically rec'd his tax bill in the mail last week.

Reel Knotty
11-22-2010, 02:17 PM
A buddy who bought his boat in 2005 and just recently licensed it
last spring magically rec'd his tax bill in the mail last week.

Abbra Kaddabra
Hockus Pockus
The Government desends
Like a swarm of Locusts

BigHog
11-22-2010, 02:20 PM
When you license the boat they collect the money. You don't pay anything to the seller. If you decide to only license the trailer then you only pay 12% on the trialer price so MAKE SURE you break out the cost of both with 2 bills of sale or you will have an issue determining the cost of the trailer!!!

TenMile
11-22-2010, 02:36 PM
Good point -- I guess if you don't register the 14K/BC number you technically don't have to pay?!?

Only time I've ever had anyone ask about my boat registration is when we go to the USA and I don't think they verify it against the BC registrar, I think they just put it into their database?

r.s craven
11-22-2010, 02:55 PM
I've never been asked for my license and wonder if they see numbers on the boat, if that's all they need ?
Should be illegal for the gov't to keep collecting tax every time something is sold...
talk about double dipping ?? (triple,quadruple) :O

profisher
11-22-2010, 03:35 PM
If your boat is stolen how will you prove it is yours if you don't register it? The previous owner if crooked could come back anytime and claim that you stole his boat. He is still the registered owner and now it is your word against his.

vetteman
11-22-2010, 03:48 PM
When you license the boat they collect the money. You don't pay anything to the seller. If you decide to only license the trailer then you only pay 12% on the trialer price so MAKE SURE you break out the cost of both with 2 bills of sale or you will have an issue determining the cost of the trailer!!!

Are you sure of that? When I registered my boat at Service Canada last November I asked about paying the tax on it. I was told that it was strictly a provincial matter to collect taxes. Registering is a federal matter and they had nothing to do with the collection of taxes.
I had to go to Service BC to pay the tax on my boat.
Dave

Dave S
11-22-2010, 04:53 PM
If your boat is stolen how will you prove it is yours if you don't register it? The previous owner if crooked could come back anytime and claim that you stole his boat. He is still the registered owner and now it is your word against his.

Thats why you would want to get a bill of sale from the previous guy. Wouldn't that be proof the boat is no longer theirs? Also, I'm sure bank statements could prove an exchange of money took place. Don't think it would be that easy for someone to pull it off. imho

Halilogger
11-22-2010, 05:24 PM
Also remember for anyone buying a used boat, break down the extras on the bill of sale, IE downriggers, radar, kicker ect. HST is on the boat, and trailer.
Not sure if you broke out the price (outboard only) of the main motor if you would have to pay on that.

Sitkaspruce
11-22-2010, 08:30 PM
Are you sure of that? When I registered my boat at Service Canada last November I asked about paying the tax on it. I was told that it was strictly a provincial matter to collect taxes. Registering is a federal matter and they had nothing to do with the collection of taxes.
I had to go to Service BC to pay the tax on my boat.
Dave

If you Reg with Service Canada, it takes about 7-10 month for the BC tax man to come collecting, but he will.

Also, get a bill of sale for the trailer, just the hull and all the other stuff that came with it. In other words get three bills of sale with a breakdown for each item. The just take in the Bill of Sale for the hull to SC to get it registered, ditto for the trailer and the last is a piece of mind in case something happens like Profisher said.

Cheers

SS

profisher
11-23-2010, 06:41 AM
So you have a bill of sale, from who? The registered owner or someone else pulling the same. Many used boats (private sales) are sold multiple times without the registration taking place. So your bill of sale is from someone who isn't on the title either. By this time any bill of sale documents in the chain are long gone, previous owners die etc etc. The last person to legally register it could come back and claim it. story like...had it in long term storage, never checked on it...decided it was time to sell it..went to clean it up...its gone. Spotted it the other day at your house. If you can't prove he sold it 3 or 4 persons back in the chain..your F%@KED.

r.s craven
11-23-2010, 06:53 AM
I can't see that happening, how would an ex owner know whether or not you had the boat licensed already ??
No judge is going to dispute a bill of sale especially when the trailer is already registered & licensed in your name.

Halilogger
11-23-2010, 08:38 AM
Just make sure when you purchase a boat, it has a pleasure craft licence, and the name on this document has the same as the person selling the boat.

TenMile
11-23-2010, 08:53 AM
Back to my opening question on whether the HST is payable -- the answer is "Yes" -- gotta love the Government "spin" convincing us that higher taxes are good :-)

Another advantage of going to HST is that tax will no longer be payable on most used goods purchased privately. However, used vehicles, aircraft and boats purchased privately (not from an HST registrant) would still be subject to provincial sales tax, which is being increased from 7% to 12%. Almost everything that is subject to PST when purchased new is also subject to PST when purchased used. Exceptions to this are used clothing or footwear priced at less than $100, and certain used manufactured homes. Most people are not aware that the Social Services Tax Act requires them to remit the tax to the government when they buy used goods privately, or when they purchase something from an out of province seller. We would guess that most people don't remit the PST on this type of item, and are therefore in contravention of the Social Services Tax Act.

However, if buying a boat from a broker/dealer and you are making a trade-in, you only pay HST on the cost difference -- so can save a few bucks.

vetteman
11-23-2010, 02:41 PM
If you Reg with Service Canada, it takes about 7-10 month for the BC tax man to come collecting, but he will.

Also, get a bill of sale for the trailer, just the hull and all the other stuff that came with it. In other words get three bills of sale with a breakdown for each item. The just take in the Bill of Sale for the hull to SC to get it registered, ditto for the trailer and the last is a piece of mind in case something happens like Profisher said.

Cheers

SS

Service BC checks with Service Canada(or whoever) on a semi regular basis for changes to vessel registration.That's how they keep track of things.Sometimes you get caught pretty quick,sometimes it takes a bit longer. I decided to pay mine promptly because by the time they caught up to me, HST would have been implimented and although I bought my boat in 2009 I might possibly have had to pay the 12% instead of just 7%.I didn't want to chance that.Besides,I like to make things easy for the taxman. I love the guy as much as you guys do.
Dave

Dave S
09-26-2011, 11:55 PM
So was just reading up on this thread and I'm wondering if anyone knows what the deal would be if I bought a boat now and held off on registering it until 2012, would I pay HST or just pst on it? Fvck! So confused. Maybe I should just print up some k numbers myself and then tax man gets none.

FishBC.org
09-27-2011, 04:53 AM
Hypothetical question. What if the seller is a business and charged the HST on the sale?

r.s craven
09-27-2011, 05:13 AM
So was just reading up on this thread and I'm wondering if anyone knows what the deal would be if I bought a boat now and held off on registering it until 2012, would I pay HST or just pst on it? Fvck! So confused. Maybe I should just print up some k numbers myself and then tax man gets none.

you would only pay 7% pst if you held off till the taxes are changed.
at least that is what happened under the old system.
who knows what kinda spin the gov't will throw at us this time ?

NautiGirl
09-27-2011, 05:25 AM
Yes. See http://www.rev.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/ctr_001.pdf

the tax on used was likely brought in because Jimmy P's dealership clout lobbied that private sellers and unlicenced car dealers had an unfair advantage when selling used cars. If a business buys or sells anything with HST/GST, they will collect or pay it as needed. If you buy it personally, then try to transfer to the co, you will get shafted twice, but if you buy it originally in your business name, you will get the GST input tax credit. If it is large and noticeable on your HST return, CRA will usually call you asking what it was. If your ITC is not unusually large, it is possible that no one will ask. They will get on your case if the boat was not for business use and make you pay the tax, because once it has a deemed change of use (mostly personal use), then the GST is payable by self assessment or at time of audit. If you are a charter business, no problems there.

If you are importing boats and trailers, make sure you get separate bills of sale or one bill of sale with the trailer and boat separated,or some jackass at the border might want to bill you for the whole value, then they might try that again at ICBC when you go to get it licenced, then you have to apply for refunds where you got overcharged. That could be hard to do if there are no separate values assigned on the bill. Assume there is a jackass behind the counter or the badge and split the values on the bill for your US boat.

Just remember that for those who forget to pay the tax or try to "gift" their boat for unbelievably low values, the tax man will apply interest and often penalties too.

I registered mine with Transport Canada and followed the process. I later noticed that Transport Canada has a boat registration search tool online, but my boat and my name were not on it. I guess they can screw up whenever.

Good luck.

hud52
09-27-2011, 07:14 AM
The following wording is taken from the Federal Government's "APPLICATION FOR PLEASURE CRAFT LICENCE".

The personal information provided on this form is collected under the authority of the Small Vessel Regulations of the Canada Shipping Act, 2001. This information is collected for the purpose of
issuing licences in order to identify owners and operators of pleasure craft, as well as to monitor and ensure compliance with the Small Vessel Regulations. (Note: A licence document does not
establish ownership of a pleasure craft.)Information may be disclosed to parties involved in search and rescue activities, as well as law enforcement agencies for the purpose of carrying out a lawful
investigation and enforcing any law of Canada, including the requirement to pay provincial sales tax. The information collected is described in the Personal Information Bank entitled Pleasure Craft
Licences (bank number DOT PPU 044). Under the provisions of the Privacy Act, individuals have the right of access to, and protection of, their personal information. Instructions for obtaining
personal information are provided in Info Source, a copy of which is available in major public and academic libraries or online at

Seems to me that if one signs the form, that person has given permission for the information to be disclosed to provincial tax authorities.

Clipper
09-27-2011, 02:05 PM
When we finally get back to the old GST/PST system will the GST portion for used vehicles not revert to what it originally was - 0% so that only the PST will be paid (7%)? Do you think that the current HST level of 12% will remain in force as PST? Man, this crap of paying tax upon tax for used stuff pisses me off to no end!

spring fever
09-27-2011, 03:50 PM
What a laugh. Do you really believe it will go back to the way it was? They have too much revenue to make up-also 1.6 billion they owe the feds for the failed HST. If you voted no to the HST -reality is about to bite you. Gov'ts never give back money and you can take that to the bank!!!

Kristo
09-27-2011, 05:21 PM
The amount of taxes that we are paying in Canada is completely crazy.
Even taxes are taxed and taxed again.
Look at the tax on a litre of gas or the Property Transfer Tax
Govt is simply spending too much we have more govt than what we need.
It doesnt matter if you call it HST or GST the Govt needs to collect the money they spend from you and I.
Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

adrianna3
09-27-2011, 07:08 PM
Just pay cash for everything and drive it underground. That's where most of the business is being done now.

AlK
09-27-2011, 09:49 PM
My experiences:
A
1) I purchased a boat and trailer from a private party on April 9, 2001.
2) Shortly after April 9, 2001 I sent in the Pleasure Craft License Form to have the boat transferred to my name.
3) In a letter dated June 18, 2001 the Consumer Taxation Branch notified me that it had come to their attention that Boat License # 13K-xxxxxx was recently registered in may name and that provincial sales tax was payable.

B
1) In July 2011 I purchased a boat in the US
2) At the border I had to pay 12% tax on the boat and 5% tax on the trailer.
3) When I had the trailer inspeced at Canadian tire I was charged an enviromental fee of $5.00 per tire.
4) When I registered and had the trailer licensed I had to pay 7% on the trailer.

The following is a quote from my Pleasure Craft License.
"When the ownership of a licesnsed pleasure craft is transferred, the new owner shall immediately make application to the issuer to transfer the license."
This document also states
"THIS LICENSE IS NOT A TITLE DOCUMENT"

Dave S
09-27-2011, 10:08 PM
So, I am looking at buying a boat that is being brought into canada but it is registered in the USA. Guy is canadian but lives in Washington and is coming up for weekend and bringing the boat.
The boat is 15 years old and trailer is 8 years old.
Does anyone know how I would go about getting the boat and trailer registered?

Thanks,
Dave

r.s craven
09-28-2011, 07:17 AM
So, I am looking at buying a boat that is being brought into canada but it is registered in the USA. Guy is canadian but lives in Washington and is coming up for weekend and bringing the boat.
The boat is 15 years old and trailer is 8 years old.
Does anyone know how I would go about getting the boat and trailer registered?

Thanks,
Dave

I would get a bill of sale and a copy of his U.S. registration....
Then go to your ICBC agent with that info and ask them to transfer the trailer into your name and insure it.
After that is complete, go to Canadian tire and have them approve the trailer.

In order to license your boat, send a copy of the bill of sale and the US.registration to Service Canada.

They will in turn process the paperwork, send you your license and sooner
or later you will get a tax bill in the mail.


p.s. did you find an Arima ?

Dave S
09-28-2011, 08:28 AM
p.s. did you find an Arima ?

Hey Scott. Thanks for the reply. I did find an arima. 1996 sea explorer 17. Lots of arima upgrades and very clean. It's being brought over from the peninsula for thanksgiving. I know it's not the sea chaser but I think it will be a great boat and I am kinda into the idea of some overnight trips and sleeping in the cuddy. Pretty excited to get it.

r.s craven
09-28-2011, 08:34 AM
Congrats, the sea explorer is a nice boat and your's will have the starboard interior rather than the wood grain.
What kind of power on her ?

Dave S
09-28-2011, 10:07 AM
Thanks! It's got a pair of 98 merc motors. 75hp and 8hp. May swap for the power on my current rig. Yammy 02 f60 and 07 f4. Not sure how they will work on this boat though. Might be undergunned. I'll find out.

Time
09-28-2011, 10:12 PM
As you say Dave, the 60 may be underpowered on the 17.
General consensus on the Arima boards is for a 90 on the 17, (but their mostly Mericans in love with HP ratings), but give it a whirl if the switch out is easy to accomplish -but keep the 8 kicker if in good shape, the 4 would be too light to buck any kind of current/tide.
If you do switch the motors let us know how it performs.
( I have the SC16 with Johnson 60.)

BTW, nice rig, you will be happy with it.

FishBC.org
09-29-2011, 06:41 AM
Anyone know the answer to my original question?


Hypothetical question. What if the seller is a business and charged the HST on the sale?

Paid seller HST during purchase and he collected it as a business. The boat had a C number.

So... Any idea? I don't really think it would be appropriate to pay the HST twice considering he should be remitting the portion paid. Bill of sale says the HST amount, and bank draft receipt reflects that.

Jockey
09-29-2011, 09:29 AM
Thanks! It's got a pair of 98 merc motors. 75hp and 8hp. May swap for the power on my current rig. Yammy 02 f60 and 07 f4. Not sure how they will work on this boat though. Might be undergunned. I'll find out.

I have an older 17ft hourston with an 04 60hp yamaha and I personally think it is great power for that boat. Not sure how a hourston compares to an armina weight wise I am guessing my boat is a little easyier to push but maybe not?

My boat has no trouble getting out of the hole even with a heavy crew, full gas tanks and two batteries. I cruse between 24-29mph depending on the water conditions. I do run the motor at higher RPM than most people like to though I usually run at 5400 but can still plane at 4700RPM which gives me about 19mph.
Fuel consumption is not bad at all even if you run at 5400RPM all day. The boat is a little slow compared to other boats on flat water but in good chop or some nice big swells it can out keep up to or out perform some of the bigger rigs.

Cuba Libre
09-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Ouch!! You are pushing it pretty hard. My previous boat was a 17 1/2 ft Hourston with a 90 Merc. I ran it at 4200 which was good enough for 28mph.

At 5400, how far off your WOT are you?

Bifmalibu
09-29-2011, 08:26 PM
It goes; 17'(16'11") Sea Ranger and Sea Chaser. 16'(15'11") Sea Explorer and Sea Chaser. So I think you bought a 16' Sea Explorer. In which case the 60hp should be fine. If it is in fact a 17' Sea Ranger then you will be underpowered with the 60. Most guys run 90's on their 17's. There is a difference of 6" of beam between the 16 and 17 footers. But whatever, you got a sweet boat, congrats! Sorry for the hijack...

searun
09-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Anyone know the answer to my original question?



Paid seller HST during purchase and he collected it as a business. The boat had a C number.

So... Any idea? I don't really think it would be appropriate to pay the HST twice considering he should be remitting the portion paid. Bill of sale says the HST amount, and bank draft receipt reflects that.


Answer is the HST registrant who is selling a vessel which was part of his business must charge HST on the sale, and remit that to Rev Canada...been there done that, been audited and was told we did it correctly.

FishBC.org
09-30-2011, 04:42 PM
Answer is the HST registrant who is selling a vessel which was part of his business must charge HST on the sale, and remit that to Rev Canada...been there done that, been audited and was told we did it correctly.

Sweet and thanks so much for the reply!