2 stroke question

[Sea Ranger]

When I bought my boat(new to me) I was told to punch it hard and quick when taking the boat onto a plane. I thought it was easier for the engine if you bring your rpms up slowly and go onto a plane slowly. My 2 stroke is a 90 hp. How hard do you punch it when going onto a plane? I was also wondering what the max rpms would be for a 90 hp 2 stroke. Wide open my rpms are around 4400 but I don't normally run it above 4000 rpms. I don't know a lot about outboards as you can probably tell.... Steve.

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[Island Fish Lifter]

Steve, You should be getting 5800 rpm at WOT. You either need to decrease your prop size and/or pitch. If you continue running it like that, youll decrease the lifespan as it is overloaded all the time.
There is a possibility that it may not be developing full power. So, before spending $ on props, do a compression test and make sure all cylinders are firing.
What size of boat is the 90 on and what size is your prop now? An 18' boat with a 90hp 2- stk. should have 14 x 17, to 14x19 in aluminum (the last number represents the pitch), stainless size will need to be 1" of pitch less.
Punching the throttle wont hurt it, that is if your transom is good.

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[cedarman]

Hey Steve another idea which you could look into is see the condition of your throttle cable. Mine on my old 90 hp got stretched and would not reach WOT. I was fishing in Bamfield for the weekend and had to run it and by the end of the weekend it would not excelerate with any kind of get up and go. Cheap fix only around $500 if you hire someone to fix it but it is a do it yourself project. hope this helps.

cheers

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[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by Island Fish Lifter

Steve, You should be getting 5800 rpm at WOT. You either need to decrease your prop size and/or pitch. If you continue running it like that, youll decrease the lifespan as it is overloaded all the time.
There is a possibility that it may not be developing full power. So, before spending $ on props, do a compression test and make sure all cylinders are firing.
What size of boat is the 90 on and what size is your prop now? An 18' boat with a 90hp 2- stk. should have 14 x 17, to 14x19 in aluminum (the last number represents the pitch), stainless size will need to be 1" of pitch less.
Punching the throttle wont hurt it, that is if your transom is good.

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Holy crap fish lifter, I had no idea I was putting my motor under a load like you said. It runs fine and doesn't sound like its crapping out so I'm sure its running on all cylinders. My boat is a 17 foot Arima, not a big boat but not a light boat either.
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/IMG_0957-1.jpg
I just assumed that the prop and motor were propperly matched.
Will I find a number on the prop somewhere that will tell me the pitch?


Cedarman.... The throttle cable runs smooth as well so I don't think thats the problem either, The motor will rev out more but I was keeping the revs down as I thought I was doing my motor a favor.... ARGGGGG!!!


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[nedarb2]

if you take the prop off it should be written on the back of the hub - see below picture.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6956/img3781k.jpg





Try this out and see what it says also:
http://appcenter.mercurymarine.com/propSelector/home.do

Just for your information, im turning 14x19'' on my 200hp - for a 90hp it should be much less

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks nedarb2,
I will check this weekend and see what prop I have.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

Does every one run their 2 strokes in the 5000 rpms and more?

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[nedarb2]

quote:Originally posted by Sea Ranger

Does every one run their 2 strokes in the 5000 rpms and more?

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif


Your welcome :)
you dont run them in the 5000 rpms, you still cruise at 4000rpms or w/e your cruising speed is, but you have to be able to attain the 5800rpm becasue that shows your prop is the right size for your engine as fish lifter said. If you cant reach that rpm, it means your engine is working to hard to attain the rpm's that it is able to get to. Think of it as being geared to high, you can always go up a hill, but your engine is working way to hard to do it.
Even if you cruise at 4000rpm, your engine is working like your at 90% throttle instead of 60 or 70%.


i just did some research online and someone with a simialr boat as yours and a 90 honda is running a 13.25x17 prop and getting 5800rpm

[Island Fish Lifter]

No, not unless they own a gas company. Max rpms is the way to select a correct prop. Your boat and motor will just feel and sound right when you find the best speed for your boat.

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[r.s craven]

You should be getting at least 5500 rpms at WOT.
It would seem the prop is pitched wrong, and that is why
you're not getting good "hole shot"
engine is working too hard to spin the prop.

[Island Fish Lifter]

sorry nedarb, we must have posted at the same time.

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[profisher]

For longer engine life I always prefer the engine to over rev slightly over manufacturers maximum rpm's. Just don't take it up over the maximum rpms. By matching a prop that gives you this scenario you will be running at cruise speed in a lower gear and taking strain off the crank and rods. Your hole shot will also be quicker and again less strain on the engine. My 200 2 stroke should top out at 5400-5500 if matched to factory specs. I'll pick a prop that will allow 5800 rpms. JUST DON"T GO PAST 5500 RPMS!

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks guys, I didn't even know I had a problem. I will look into this a lot more and figure out what prop I need. So, do I want to put on a prop with less pitch and that will increase my rpms? How do I know which pitch is best.... Trial and error???

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks guys, I didn't even know I had a problem. I will look into this a lot more and figure out what prop I need. So, do I want to put on a prop with less pitch and that will increase my rpms? How do I know which pitch is best.... Trial and error???

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[r.s craven]

Can you advise diameter and pitch of current prop?
should be stamped on the hub or possibly on one of the blades...

[r.s craven]

Can you advise diameter and pitch of current prop?
should be stamped on the hub or possibly on one of the blades...

[Island Fish Lifter]

i just did some research online and someone with a simialr boat as yours and a 90 honda is running a 13.25x17 prop and getting 5800rpm
[/quote]

This is probably a good place to start. Most prop shops will let you try a few different ones until you get it right.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[Island Fish Lifter]

i just did some research online and someone with a simialr boat as yours and a 90 honda is running a 13.25x17 prop and getting 5800rpm
[/quote]

This is probably a good place to start. Most prop shops will let you try a few different ones until you get it right.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[Fish Assassin]

Where are you located Sea Ranger? What make of motor.

It would take no time to check linkage, prop size and compresion. Glady help if your near by.

Hey that is an Arima. Have you put it on a scale. I ask because I thought for a period of time they had a foam problem. The foam would hold water if it got in. The weight would cause the problem as well.

[Fish Assassin]

Where are you located Sea Ranger? What make of motor.

It would take no time to check linkage, prop size and compresion. Glady help if your near by.

Hey that is an Arima. Have you put it on a scale. I ask because I thought for a period of time they had a foam problem. The foam would hold water if it got in. The weight would cause the problem as well.

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by fishassassin123

Where are you located Sea Ranger? What make of motor.

It would take no time to check linkage, prop size and compresion. Glady help if your near by.

Hey that is an Arima. Have you put it on a scale. I ask because I thought for a period of time they had a foam problem. The foam would hold water if it got in. The weight would cause the problem as well.



I'm in Colwood Fish 123, Is that anywhere near you?
Yikes, this is going from bad to worse. Will check and see how much the boat weighs. I did a lot of research about Arimas before I bought this boat and I read a lot in forums from actual owners of Arimas and never heard about a foam problem. It does sound plausable but I sure hope not.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by fishassassin123

Where are you located Sea Ranger? What make of motor.

It would take no time to check linkage, prop size and compresion. Glady help if your near by.

Hey that is an Arima. Have you put it on a scale. I ask because I thought for a period of time they had a foam problem. The foam would hold water if it got in. The weight would cause the problem as well.



I'm in Colwood Fish 123, Is that anywhere near you?
Yikes, this is going from bad to worse. Will check and see how much the boat weighs. I did a lot of research about Arimas before I bought this boat and I read a lot in forums from actual owners of Arimas and never heard about a foam problem. It does sound plausable but I sure hope not.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

Boat/Eng/Trl
Approx. Weight
17' SEA RANGER 2550 LB





Specifications

Length 16' 11" 5.16 m.
Beam 8' 2.44 m.
Height 5' 10" 1.78 m.
Weight 1430 lbs. 649 kg.
Max Power 120 h.p 120 h.p
Safe Load Cap. (6) 1600 lbs. 726 kg.
Fuel 27 gal. 102 L

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[Sea Ranger]

Boat/Eng/Trl
Approx. Weight
17' SEA RANGER 2550 LB





Specifications

Length 16' 11" 5.16 m.
Beam 8' 2.44 m.
Height 5' 10" 1.78 m.
Weight 1430 lbs. 649 kg.
Max Power 120 h.p 120 h.p
Safe Load Cap. (6) 1600 lbs. 726 kg.
Fuel 27 gal. 102 L

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Fish Assassin]

I am in Courtenay. All are easy to fix, unless it's compression. I have owned an Arima. They are great machines. Weight is a easy test take the boat to the dump and drive on the scale the subtact the weight of your truck. I dout its the problem but it is another to check as it is a foam filled boat.

[Fish Assassin]

I am in Courtenay. All are easy to fix, unless it's compression. I have owned an Arima. They are great machines. Weight is a easy test take the boat to the dump and drive on the scale the subtact the weight of your truck. I dout its the problem but it is another to check as it is a foam filled boat.

[Sea Ranger]

I might be wrong but my motor sounds like its reved to the max at 4400 rpm and to rev it up to 5000+ rpm sounds like it would be over reving it. I'll do some research and let you know what I find, thanks.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

I might be wrong but my motor sounds like its reved to the max at 4400 rpm and to rev it up to 5000+ rpm sounds like it would be over reving it. I'll do some research and let you know what I find, thanks.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Island Fish Lifter]

See, this is why a "mechanics" forum wouldnt work. This has gone from a simple propping issue to soaked foam etc.. Simple guys, come on. He just needs to find out what prop hes got right now, that should tell him what he needs to know for now. Then e can look at other possibilities. FA, you should know better than that, The poor guys probably so confused now that he doesnt know what to do.

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Fill the dam tub!

[Island Fish Lifter]

See, this is why a "mechanics" forum wouldnt work. This has gone from a simple propping issue to soaked foam etc.. Simple guys, come on. He just needs to find out what prop hes got right now, that should tell him what he needs to know for now. Then e can look at other possibilities. FA, you should know better than that, The poor guys probably so confused now that he doesnt know what to do.

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Fill the dam tub!

[profisher]

Make sure your tach is accurate while your looking for an answer.

[King_Cod]

I think Island Fish Lifter hit it bang on there with the prop pitch theory. I am running a 115 two stroke and my Maximum is 5100 RPM. Mercury website says between 5000 and 5700 is rated RPM for my engine so I left it as is.

Reel Chaos

[Fish Assassin]

Sea Ranger how long have you owned this boat? Has it always been this way.

I really hope this info has not confused you. Very easy to touble shoot all of these things. That is why I even offered to help if you were near by.

I just went thru a problem with my 2 stroke Yamaha and it was none of the above mentioned. Turned out I had no spark in one of my cylinders do to a blown stator. With the blown stator I was unable to get the full power from my motor, but it ran perfectly. Confused me for some time. Almost cost me some bucks. But I worked it thru it and now it's all fixed on my machine now, and now I have total range of RPM.

Take one thing at a time and you will figure it out.Save your money it more then likly something minnor.

[Sea Ranger]

Well, I must admit this has gone from one thing to another so I phoned the dealer I bought my boat from and he more then assured me that there is nothing wrong with the outboard. He did say that when he bought the boat it had the same prop on it and I could change props but my motor is a 1992 and he didn't think it was a good idea to rev the motor more then what it is set at now. He also mentioned that 1 degree of pitch change will change the revs by apprx 450 rpm. Now is a good time for me to do a little tune up, change the plugs and leg oil, check the compression too. I wouldn't have been able to come up with so many ideas as to what might be wrong with out the help of everyone on this site so I thing thats a good thing but like fish lifter said.... doesn't make for a good mechanics site. Thanks all.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[profisher]

If you are truly only getting 4400 rpms wide open, your working it to death. Get low rpms equals taking it easy out of your head. The main factor is what gear is it in while turning those rpms. Example. Take a car with a stick, take off from from being completely stopped and going up a hill in 3rd gear. That is what an over propped outboard has to do every time you come up on plane.

[profisher]

By the way the dealer is a jackass!!

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

If you are truly only getting 4400 rpms wide open, your working it to death. Get low rpms equals taking it easy out of your head. The main factor is what gear is it in while turning those rpms. Example. Take a car with a stick, take off from from being completely stopped and going up a hill in 3rd gear. That is what an over propped outboard has to do every time you come up on plane.
I see what you mean profisher and the way you explained it was very easy to understand. Is it possible my tac is out or something cause when its wide open it really doesn't sound like it should be reving much more then it is. I guess I'll have to have a machanic go out with me and have a listen to settle this.... I sure would love to find out.

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[Sea Ranger]

Is there a mechanic in the house that might like to go for a little ride out of Pedder Bay this weekend?

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

Stopped in and talked to the mechanics at Sherwood Marine and they too say that it should be in the 5000 rpm range as well. They also said that if the boat goes up on plane easily then they doubt that it is a wet foam issue which is a good thing. But why is it propped wrong in the first place. Years ago I had an older 50 hp outboard that was about ready to blow up and the mechanic that looked at it back then put on a prop that stopped it from being over reved as he must have thought that would stop it from blowing up. Do you think that maybe that prop that is on there is on there for a reason? Is there a reason to not let a 2 stroke rev up to the 5000 rpm range? It would be a good money maker for a mechanic to put on a 2 stroke motor repair course for people like me who have so many questions..... just a thought.

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[bananas]

Anything under 5000rpm is doing more damage to your motor, does not mater who say anything else if you reprop and your max rpms are 5500 then your still only going to crus at 4000 rpm.thats 1500 rpms your not using your motor will sound better and thank you.If your max is 4400 rite now and your crus is 4000 your going to blow it up.
It won't hurt to try .Have you figured out what pitch you are running?I live in colwood and don't mind giving you a hand if you want.

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks Bananas, I'm going to pull the prop off on Saturday and take a look at it then. Maybe once I have the prop off then I'll let you know if I need a hand, thanks for the offer I really appreciate that.... I wish I could take someone out for a run to listen to how it sounds now before I take it off....Steve.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[bananas]

you don't have to take your prop off it should say rite on it.

[LastChance]

I typically like to prop my boat so I can hit the upper end of the MAX rpm range with about 3/4 load. That way, I'm not lugging it, I think it's better to have the engine rev a little higher then lug.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

[Sea Ranger]

Right after work I'm heading to Kelseys for free wing night but I will check and see if I can read what prop I have. I have been surfing and have found out a bit about props and stuff and I do believe the problem is all in the prop.....lol. (I think I hear an echo)

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Island Fish Lifter]

Good call Steve. Definately the first thing to do without jumping to conclusions is find out whats on there now. If you came back on and said you have a 13 1/4 x 17, Id say you definately have a prob somewhere else, But I think youll find the props way too big. By the way I am a marine mechanic...

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[profisher]

Another way to think it through..a 17" prop moves 17 inches of water for each revolution..a 15" pitched prop moves 15 inches per rev. It is easier for the engine to push 15 inches than 17 inches thus it spools up quicker and there is less load on everything. The only down side is your top speed decreases slightly as you reach top rpms sooner. (run out of revs) Your other question...2 strokes prefer higher rpms i combination with less load...4 strokes (automotive design) prefer lower rpms and will take more load.

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks profisher, I took a look at the prop and the only markings on it that I could find is: 16-K
I have no idea what those numbers are so I'm still going to pull the prop off. I was looking at props and noticed 3, 4, and 5, bladed props. Does it matter if you put a 3 or 4 bladed prop on an outboard and whats the difference. Sorry for all these questions but the last thing I want to do is blow up my motor..... still have to finish paying for the boat before I can replace the motor.

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[nedarb2]

different blades give optimum performance in different speeds. The only practical choices are 3 vs. 4 blade (5 is just going overboard).
$ blade gives best perfomarnace at cruise, 3 is better for speed, in a nutt shell.

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks nedarb2, I'd be better off with keeping it to a 3 blade prop. Good to know!

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[CIVANO]

Not necessarily. A 4 blade gets you on plane more quickly, allows you to stay on plane at a lower speed which might save fuel. The downside is a small loss of top end speed. I changed last year to a 4 blade and will never go back to a 3. If you indeed need a different prop, you can go to a prop shop and they will most likely let you try both.

[Sea Ranger]

Well, maybe a 4 blade prop is the way to go. I'll start looking around and see which boats have a 3 blade and which boats have a 4 blade prop and go from there.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

Ok, I removed the prop and the prop size that is on the boat is
13 1/2 x 16-k. I'll phone S&G and see what they say but I don't think the mechanics are working on a Saturday. Fish Lifter..... What ya think? or anybody? Steve.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[profisher]

I would try and find a 15 inch on loan and try it for a trip and see if you get some improvement. If not you can look elsewhere for a problem.

[nedarb2]

It doesnt sound like your prop is the problem, your missing like 1000rpm from your top end...
I would get somebody to look at it and investigate - if your engine like you said sounds like its running balls out at full throttle your tach might just be out of whack. If not, something sounds like its restricting your engine. Spark plugs or dirty fuel filters maybe? Have u pulled out a plug and seen if there dirty or clean?
i wouldnt rule out a wrong prop yet until your engine has been looked at, but it sounds like less of a probability now.

[Tofinoguy]

quote:Originally posted by CIVANO

Not necessarily. A 4 blade gets you on plane more quickly, allows you to stay on plane at a lower speed which might save fuel. The downside is a small loss of top end speed. I changed last year to a 4 blade and will never go back to a 3. If you indeed need a different prop, you can go to a prop shop and they will most likely let you try both.
4 blades help when you run in rough water like we as you are at lower speed. My boat can stay on plane @ 16 knots.

[Island Fish Lifter]

Steve, that should be plenty to get you in the ballpark. Maybe Your next move should be to verify that your tach is working properly. The best way is to check it with a photo tach. but its a bit of a "technical" process. It may be best to hire a mechanic to go for a ride with you to take the reading. It may be as simple as an improper setting on the back end of your tach. Let us know. K? Dave.

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[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by C.S.

Stop guessing and take it to a dealer,get them to put it on there Dino machine.If you can get your full rpm on the machine then you know its a prop/pitch problem...Maybe a hours work,90 bucks well spent!

X2

So, I guess you finally get my 2 cents, to go along with the others! :)

Your remote tachometer mounted on the dash, more than likely does “not” give an accurate reading. While the reading is close enough for most of us, the only way to get an accurate reading is to hook the tachometer directly to the engine. You may not be able to “just listen” to determine a problem? Yea, you might have a bad gage or sensor, but i doubt it?

It sounds like you indeed are missing about 1000 RPMs and that needs fixed! I have had to resize props more than once! And, it has always been due to, additional gear added and never from anything else mentioned, but those are all valid concerns. If I am not mistaken, everything everyone has stated here is correct! It is a good idea to check and keep an eye on everything mentioned for the obvious reasons. However, normally the reason you need to re-prop is (1) you have damaged your old one (could be from excess cavitation) or (2) added “weight" to your boat. Most likely, over time you have just added additional weight (eg all that new gear and fancy fishing stuff).

You all ready have the prop off. At this point, take the existing prop to someone who knows what they are talking about, show it to them, and tell them what is going on! Take "their" advice!

You can have everything else checked but based on what I am reading, I believe you just need a different prop! As stated, most shops will let you buy, try, return, and exchange if necessary. A smaller prop or pitch will get you “out-of-hole” and up “on plane” better and increase your WOT RPMs, but will also reduce your “top-end” speed, but most importantly a “properly” matched prop will reduce the excess wear on your engine! It is very important, as stated by others, if you are not running the proper prop, to get the recommended RPMs @ WOT - you will be doing harm to your engine, period! End of story!

Stop guessing! :D

[CIVANO]

I agree with all above - my only additional thought is that I learned the hard way that the dealer and mechanic where I take my motor for tune up knew nothing about matching the boat/motor and prop. even though they presented themselves as experts. There are experts in that field and they specialize in props. My dealer said forget 4 blade props they are for bass boats. He was very wrong. I had complained for years about sluggish performance and he said I was getting what I should get. I discovered that in fact I had been over proped with too much pitch.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by CIVANO

I agree with all above - my only additional thought is that I learned the hard way that the dealer and mechanic where I take my motor for tune up knew nothing about matching the boat/motor and prop. even though they presented themselves as experts. There are experts in that field and they specialize in props. My dealer said forget 4 blade props they are for bass boats. He was very wrong. I had complained for years about sluggish performance and he said I was getting what I should get. I discovered that in fact I had been over proped with too much pitch.

Sheesh... X2, again! :)
I only take my boat and listen to the one's I "know", know what they are talking about!

[Sea Ranger]

You guys are great!!!! All good advice and I will talk to the mechanics to see where I go from here. I even got Charlie involved....lol. I really don't want to take the boat into town so I'll see who is out in Colwood and take it there. I do have a lot of gear in the boat and at times there can be gear for 4 guys including weights and hali rods, anchors, downriggers, spare cannon balls not to mention big guys too. I can see that being an issue, again, all good ideas thank-you. Steve.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Fish Assassin]

What ever came of this? Is it fixed?

[Sea Ranger]

As of right now.... no, I haven't had a chance to take the boat out but I have been talking to a lot of people and mechanics, and for eveyone I talk to I get different answers. I have found out that I am probably carrying too much unneeded weight in the form of rods, gear, weights and a few other items as well as I always go out with a full gas tanks for both motors. I always thought that over reving a motor is a bad thing and it is but what I didn't understand was under reving a motor is just as bad. Now I understand why you "punch it" to get up on a plane. If you take the revs up slowly when your trying to get on a plane you end up putting a lot of stress on the motor but if you punch it, then the motor will be working hardest to get on a plane while the revs are higher which actually is less stressful for your motor..... then once a plane is achieved the revs can be lowered to save fuel while running. I bet you now that when I go out again and I punch it (after it has had a chance to warm up) to bring it onto a plane I will achieve higher revs then before simply because I will be giving it more throttle then before. By the best of my knowledge a 1992 Yamaha 2 stroke motor should max its revs out between 4500 and 5500 RPMS(NOTHING MORE!!!), I'm thinking that as long as I can get it over 4500 rpms I am not going to mess with it because as I said under reving a motor is bad for it but so is over reving especially a motor that is 18 years old.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[r.s craven]

Steve, you need to be able to hit 5500 rpms at WOT.
anything less, you are not propped correctly.
Don't look for anything more complicated because i'm
99% sure that's all it is.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Steve, you need to be able to hit 5500 rpms at WOT.
anything less, you are not propped correctly.
Don't look for anything more complicated because i'm
99% sure that's all it is.

X2
You need to get close to that 5500!
I wouldn't be worried about taking the boat anywhere? Just take the prop to someone who knows what they are talking about, tell them what's going on and get the right size props? Sounds like if you go down a size and/or pitch you should be fine?

[Sea Ranger]

I'll just have to wait till I can get out on the water to find out for sure and anything else short of that is only guessing.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie


quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Steve, you need to be able to hit 5500 rpms at WOT.
anything less, you are not propped correctly.
Don't look for anything more complicated because i'm
99% sure that's all it is.

X2
You need to get close to that 5500!
I wouldn't be worried about taking the boat anywhere? Just take the prop to someone who knows what they are talking about, tell them what's going on and get the right size props? Sounds like if you go down a size and/or pitch you should be fine?


The prop now is 13 1/2 x 16, don't think I can go much lower then 15

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[r.s craven]

Here's a great deal on a stainless Yamaha prop
13-3/4 x 21p
betcha it would solve your problem:)


http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/9976487

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks Charlie and RS, I thought I wanted to go down in pitch not up but I will look into it and find out for sure.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[profisher]

Down will give you more rpms. Up will make the engine work harder.

[Degree of Freedom]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Here's a great deal on a stainless Yamaha prop
13-3/4 x 21p
betcha it would solve your problem:)


http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/9976487


Betcha it'll make it worse..

If he's currently running 13-1/2 x 16....13-3/4 x 21 is gonna drop the rpm even lower...a lot lower (larger diameter and greater pitch...)

I've been trying to stay out of this, but he's getting all sorts of conflicting info and it's not helping!

[Sea Ranger]

Thats what I thought. Now I just have to wait till I can get back out on the water and open her up to see what the revs get up to. I'm thinking that its just me not reving it enough. Why would the motor be propped the way it is now.... there must be a reason. The old owner must have propped it that way for a reason.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Island Fish Lifter]

quote:Originally posted by Degree of Freedom


quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Here's a great deal on a stainless Yamaha prop
13-3/4 x 21p
betcha it would solve your problem:)


http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/9976487


Betcha it'll make it worse..

If he's currently running 13-1/2 x 16....13-3/4 x 21 is gonna drop the rpm even lower...a lot lower (larger diameter and greater pitch...)

I've been trying to stay out of this, but he's getting all sorts of conflicting info and it's not helping!


Im not getting into it anymore either..

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[Fish Assassin]

[/quote]

Im not getting into it anymore either..

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!
[/quote]

I just want to know how it really turns out. Would of loved to help if I was closer.

But I also gave up on this some time ago.

Sorry,

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks for your help but a lot of the advice I'm getting is nothing more then guesses and conflicting to the point of useless. Once I get the boat out on the water I will report back my findings.... simple as that!!! And I personally don't think its a good idea to listen to the advice of someone on line who I have never met especially when everyone says something different and like I said earlier, Thanks for your help but its not really helping.... Sorry!

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Gunsmith]

Free advice is not worth the price of a new motor. Pay a mechanic to check the problem out.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[bananas]

Wow i think 99.9% said prop.Oh well we tried boys.No more said good luck.

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by Gunsmith

Free advice is not worth the price of a new motor. Pay a mechanic to check the problem out.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg


I agree.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Fins -n- Skins]

If your in Victoria, call Marc at Runabout Marine. He comes right to your house and he also does sea trials.. He might have some props to try. 250-744-9720

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks Fins, I'll give him a call.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[wolf]

Or better yet write down all the data regarding rpm (wot),what it does in the water etc and take the prop to Don at west isle marine in sydney he will let you take out props to try and spend the time and find out what works for your boat he is a world of knowledge and been doing props for a very long time.

Good luck with your venture

Wolf

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Or better yet write down all the data regarding rpm (wot),what it does in the water etc and take the prop to Don at west isle marine in sydney he will let you take out props to try and spend the time and find out what works for your boat he is a world of knowledge and been doing props for a very long time.

Good luck with your venture

Wolf

Good to know.... Thanks

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

I finally got a chance to get the boat out on the water. Motor works just fine, It was nice and calm out on the water so it was the perfect day to get out. WOT the motor revs at 4900 rpm and you can hear that its screaming at that rev so I brought it down to 4500 rpms and everything felt smooth and ran great. 30 miles an hours fully loaded boat and 3 guys. There is nothing wrong with my motor or running it at the revs I am. You can hear that the motor likes it at 4500 rpms and anything higher is going to blow the motor up.... you can hear it!!! Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this.... I learned a lot about my motor, found I can run it at 4500 rpm... in fact it liked it and I picked up about another 10 miles an hour too. I'm not going to reprop.... no need too. Thanks again..... Steve.
Also picked up 2 hali's ... a 25 and a 15 pounder.... was a great day!!!

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

I finally got a chance to get the boat out on the water. Motor works just fine, It was nice and calm out on the water so it was the perfect day to get out. WOT the motor revs at 4900 rpm and you can hear that its screaming at that rev so I brought it down to 4500 rpms and everything felt smooth and ran great. 30 miles an hours fully loaded boat and 3 guys. There is nothing wrong with my motor or running it at the revs I am. You can hear that the motor likes it at 4500 rpms and anything higher is going to blow the motor up.... you can hear it!!! Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this.... I learned a lot about my motor, found I can run it at 4500 rpm... in fact it liked it and I picked up about another 10 miles an hour too. I'm not going to reprop.... no need too. Thanks again..... Steve.
Also picked up 2 hali's ... a 25 and a 15 pounder.... was a great day!!!

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[bananas]

Wow he just does not get it.I wish you good luck with your motor.

[bananas]

Wow he just does not get it.I wish you good luck with your motor.

[lazoman]

SeaRanger, I've been holding off replying here until I had some definite #s for you.

I've got an Arima SeaChaser 17, which is 200 lb lighter than your SeaRanger. 2000-115 v-4 2 stroke Johnson, running a Viper Stainless prop, 13 7/8 X 17 (3 blade). 3 guys, full gas/extra gas/full cooler :)/prawn gear/bucket of cannon balls in the cuddy/ WOT is 5400 rpm @ 38 mph. She sounds good at that rate, but an easy cruise is 4600 @ 32 mph give or take.

These boats are so light, 1250 lb for the hull, I can plane around 12 mph and would never have to "punch" it to get up. If I did, buddies and gear would be leaving over the transom.

[lazoman]

SeaRanger, I've been holding off replying here until I had some definite #s for you.

I've got an Arima SeaChaser 17, which is 200 lb lighter than your SeaRanger. 2000-115 v-4 2 stroke Johnson, running a Viper Stainless prop, 13 7/8 X 17 (3 blade). 3 guys, full gas/extra gas/full cooler :)/prawn gear/bucket of cannon balls in the cuddy/ WOT is 5400 rpm @ 38 mph. She sounds good at that rate, but an easy cruise is 4600 @ 32 mph give or take.

These boats are so light, 1250 lb for the hull, I can plane around 12 mph and would never have to "punch" it to get up. If I did, buddies and gear would be leaving over the transom.

[profisher]

We tried bananas, I've never owned any outboard that turned less than 5000 rpms wide open when propped correctly. He will kill it in short order sadly. Probably will oval the wrist pins from lugging it to much.

[Fins -n- Skins]

Hey Ranger i just talked to Marc from Runabout as he is replacing my steering cable[V] He said you should be getting more rpm's but would have to see what's up.

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks Fins -n- Skins, I talked to your outboard mechanic and he shed a lot of light on this, In a nut shell he said if the motor is running fine at 4500 rpms that nothing is wrong as it is within the min rpm range however it will tend to lag on take off. He said this will not blow up the motor as long as there is nothing else wrong, in fact with keeping with the prop that is already on there that I will end up with more mph and less rpms. Where as if I was to switch the prop to a 15 pitch that would look after the rpm issue and get me out of the hole faster but I would be running at a higher rpm to achieve the same mph. He said if I did a lot of sking then I might want to change props but I don't ski. Stainless Steel is also a truer prop but is also damaged easier, I find it funny that I have talked to two different mechanics and they both say that if I can run on plane at 4500 rpms that there is nothing wrong with my outboard and yet some people on this site at hell bent on the fact that I am running the wrong prop. I know they mean well and thanks for that but their not mechanics. Thats one thing I've learned. I will try a 15 pitch prop to see which I like better.Thanks to all.... Steve.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Degree of Freedom]

FYI...Island Fish Lifter is a boat mechanic, and a good one.

[Sea Ranger]

I would like to thank all who had the patiants to educate me on the matching of a prop, motor and boat. Without you I would have never known the differaence in prop sizes. I have been listening and I will be trying out different props till I get my revs up a bit more. Thank-you.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Gunsmith]

You have not done an important test, verify your actual motor rpm as shown on the tach to the rpm the motor is actually doing.
It is very easily done and all the mech has to do is to hook up a timing light and if he is any kind of mechanic he will have a timing light with a tach on it and other important info on it.
You absolutely should not trust your tach unless it has been checked in such a manner.
YOUR MECHANIC IS NOT CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS THAT A s/s PROP IS EASIER TO BREAK, IT IS THE WEAKER PARTS THAT BREAK SUCH AS PROP SHAFTS GEARS,ETC. An aluminum prop will break first and should be used in situations where there is much debris in the water.
Listen or not at least verify your tach is working right.[^]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[wolf]

quote:Stainless Steel is also a truer prop but is also damaged easier

HUH???? a alum will dent alot faster a SS hardlly ever gets damaged.

Good luck Wolf

[Island Fish Lifter]

quote:Originally posted by Gunsmith

You have not done an important test, verify your actual motor rpm as shown on the tach to the rpm the motor is actually doing.
It is very easily done and all the mech has to do is to hook up a timing light and if he is any kind of mechanic he will have a timing light with a tach on it and other important info on it.
You absolutely should not trust your tach unless it has been checked in such a manner.
YOUR MECHANIC IS NOT CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS THAT A s/s PROP IS EASIER TO BREAK, IT IS THE WEAKER PARTS THAT BREAK SUCH AS PROP SHAFTS GEARS,ETC. An aluminum prop will break first and should be used in situations where there is much debris in the water.
Listen or not at least verify your tach is working right.[^]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg


Now theres some solid advice! Good job gunsmith.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[profisher]

I've owned boats since 13 years old (I'm 50 now) and do my own mechanical work, including complete tear downs and rebuilds. It is more preferable to have your engine achieve the higher end of the manufacturers recommended rpms than the lower end. The result will be less wear and tear and longer engine life when operated at normal cruise speeds.

[wolf]

Me thinks your wasting your time Rollie, totally agree with you!!! on my outboard I spent almost a whole day and tried 8 different props to see which gave me my max rpm/speed/and out of hole tests and recorded it all and then took all my findings to a well known prop guy and he suggested which was best and went with what we both agreed upon.


Wolf

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

I've owned boats since 13 years old (I'm 50 now) and do my own mechanical work, including complete tear downs and rebuilds. It is more preferable to have your engine achieve the higher end of the manufacturers recommended rpms than the lower end. The result will be less wear and tear and longer engine life when operated at normal cruise speeds.

Thanks Pro, its good to know that, in fact that was a question I had.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Me thinks your wasting your time Rollie,


Wolf


Wolf, I'm sorry you think this is a waste of time. Lucky for me there are people on here who will take the time to help someone who has never had a prop problem before.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Sea Ranger]

quote:Originally posted by Gunsmith

You have not done an important test, verify your actual motor rpm as shown on the tach to the rpm the motor is actually doing.
It is very easily done and all the mech has to do is to hook up a timing light and if he is any kind of mechanic he will have a timing light with a tach on it and other important info on it.
You absolutely should not trust your tach unless it has been checked in such a manner.
YOUR MECHANIC IS NOT CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS THAT A s/s PROP IS EASIER TO BREAK, IT IS THE WEAKER PARTS THAT BREAK SUCH AS PROP SHAFTS GEARS,ETC. An aluminum prop will break first and should be used in situations where there is much debris in the water.
Listen or not at least verify your tach is working right.[^]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

I will get this done.... thanks.


And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[wolf]

Apperently your not hearing what some very knowledgable people like bananas and pro have said both of these men have told you that running it low RPM will hurt your engine,Ive even told you what you may want to do but your ignoring what some are saying.
IFL who is a mechanic has told you as well.As with gunsmith.

This is not a waste of time we just dont want to see you BLOW UP your engine.
To maybe put it in easier terms for you say you go up the malahat staying in 5th gear of your truck it starts to knock and ping because your lagging it, drop it down to 4th and sound is gone and your running it the way you should not hurting it puring like a kitten.
You want to be in what the manufactuer has put forth and if it is 5000 to 5500 rpm then you should be inbetween those ranges plain and simple if you dont your asking for trouble.

Do whatever you want its not my boat I know what I would do.

Good luck to you.


wolf

[Charlie]

Lots of good advice given here, many years of experience being thrown your way! You should listen to them, as long as it doesn’t have anything to do with buying a larger prop with more pitch or trying to get your WOT up to 5800 RPM! Yea, I looked it up! :D

If you are getting 4900 RPM WOT, with a “full load”, you are fine and will not be doing any harm to your engine! Personally, I would still like to see it closer to the high side than right on the the low? Getting the tachometer checked is a good idea, if there is any question there? I wouldn’t trust a tach, even after it got checked! I have had so many of those things inaccurate and off – it’s not even funny. As I have stated before, it is the only way to get an accurate reading of your RPM and since you are running on the low side of WOT, that would be nice thing to confirm!

Have you ever noticed all those brand new outboard engines setting at a dealer – they don’t have props on them? Ever wonder why? They match the engine to the boat and then match the “proper size” prop based on “that” particular configuration! You can't just assume since someone else is using a certain prop, it will work for you as your configuration is different. When things are changed – it changes your prop requirements. If I was to buy a brand new boat, I would probably have the prop pitch reduced as I all ready know, I load my boats down with additional gear! I think it has been made fairly clear by now… If you are not at least at your minimum WOT rpm, you are lugging your engine down, which will result in excess wear on it. That is a proven fact and many experienced people on here are confirming that!

If you were to do a little homework, you would find the “correct” WOT along with your “MAX” WOT RPM. That is as easy as going on Mercury’s website. If you want to confirm it, drop an email to Yamaha tech support! I think this will answer some of your questions once and for all! Here are your specs:
http://www.piranha.com/Mercury.php

Motor Specs
Manufacturer: Yamaha
Year: 1992
Horsepower: 90.0
Cylinders: 3
Type: 2 stroke
Gear Ratio: 2.00:1
Min WOT RPM: 4500
Max WOT RPM: 5500
Spline Count: 15
Drive Type:

Not so sure, I would be propping it to 5800 RPM? You, might be getting your wish for a new outboard sooner than you plan, especially on an 18 year old motor! Now we know and don’t have to guess anymore? [:0]

If you were to also go on Mercury’s website and enter your information, you will find they have nine (9) different props recommended for your 1992 outboard! These props are based on the different types of configurations and they are: 14 x 11 x 3; 14 x 13 x 3; 13-3/4 x 15 x 3; 13 x 17 x 3 (semi-cleaver); 13-1/4 x 17 x 3; 13 x 19 x 3 (semi-cleaver); 13 x 19 x 3; 12-5/8 x 21 x 3 (semi-cleaver) 13 x 21 x 3. The complete Prop cost is: $139.25. If you buy the prop and it isn’t the right pitch – send the blades back and they will replace the blades, with a different pitch!

Now, while you are checking that tachometer (or having it done) as suggested, go on Mercury’s website and get an aluminum “13-3/4” diameter prop with a “15” pitch blades. If your true RPM (fully loaded) is reading 4900 the lower pitch should put you right in the 5300-5400 RPM range and will also take care of any future weight additions? You could also take off some pounds if you want to get the RPM back above 5000? But, hey… what do I know, I have only been doing this for around 50 years!:D:D:D

Have you stopped guessing yet? :(:([8D][8D]

[profisher]

Charlie if it was your engine and like you say you carry heavy loads I would prop it to 5800. Just never take it up past 5500 and you will have less load on everything at cruise. Prop it to high revs but run it low = long life.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

Charlie if it was your engine and like you say you carry heavy loads I would prop it to 5800. Just never take it up past 5500 and you will have less load on everything at cruise. Prop it to high revs but run it low = long life.
Can’t argue that point Rollie!
Like I said, a “lot” of good information thrown out there – he should be listening! But, as long as he is within manufactures’ guidelines, he is fine. Remember, there is a difference in experience levels and it is creating some confusion!

I personally, if it were my engine? Would fiddle around and have that thing pegging at 5500-5600 RPM, “fully loaded”! And, I think, we all know why? :)

[Sea Ranger]

Thanks Charlie! :)

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Sea Ranger

Thanks Charlie! :)

And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
Your welcome and – Here are some “last” thoughts for you! :)

First, you have figured out there is a difference when people are talking about "proping" a boat at WOT and the RPM you are running at cruise, right?

There is a difference between Yamaha, Mercury, and Honda operating ranges and 4400 verses 4900 RPM at WOT! And, a 2009 verses 1992 engine? I guess there is a meaning to different strokes for different folks? I don't think Honda even made a 90 hp until 1995, which was a 4 stroke with a maximum WOT of 6000 RPM? There are four 115 hp Johnson models made in 2000, with two having a maximum WOT of 6000 RPM and the other two 5500. But, I think this question has been concerning a 1992 Yamaha and insuring "it" is operating in the correct range? [:0]

Whoever the “two” mechanics are, who are telling you “In a nut shell” the engine is running fine at 4500 RPM” WOT – IS CORRECT! That is within "factory" specs! But, I would still get it closer to the 5500 RPM!

Whoever the mechanic is, who is telling you that a SS prop “is damaged easier” – appears to be WRONG! I don't know what he is thinking, if that statement was made? Sure you heard that right? SS props are nice (and expensive), but if you do hit something – as previously stated, the gears and shafts in your lower unit will usually be what gives first - before the SS prop, but not always! Personally, I run SS and happen to like regular old props better and find them easier and cheaper to repair and/or change. A prop is a lot easier than having to repair or replace a lower unit – which I have had to do!

Whoever is telling you that it is better to have your boat propped to the high-end of “max” WOT – is CORRECT! For reasons stated! However you decide to prop it just don’t run it over your “max” 5500 WOT! As everyone else is trying to explain you can prop your boat however you want and a prop will affect top-end MPH, but that really has nothing to do with being “properly” propped! Think of it like this, how far can you walk before wearing yourself out? Now - how far can you run, before wearing yourself out? When the engine is operating in its designed range (propped correctly at WOT)… it is walking! Anything else, either over or under - you are making it run. Just like you, it will wear out sooner! According to factory specifications, you need to be "propped" at a minimum of 4500 RPM and a maximum of 5500 at WOT for your engine to be "walking". Once you have it "propped correctly" where you want it, it doesn't make any difference what you are cruising and running it at 2000 or 5500 RPM - the engine will have less stress and is still "walking". That is the range which is “best” for the engine design! Note, the factory range doesn’t say anything about “skiing”, "hole shot", “MPH”, “weight", or "additional gear”! Your engine doesn’t know any of that and doesn’t care… the only thing it knows is how hard it is being worked and its best RPM! If you have a “full load” and at 4900 RPM you are fine - even though I would prefer closer to 5500! As you burn off fuel and drink that beer, you will notice an increase in RPM. You will also notice a decrease as you load the boat up with all those fish you are catching! :D

Think of it like this? You now have a pair of "work boots" on your boat and it is asking for "running shoes"! :)
Cheers

BTW... the last thought - I am not sure your dealer is a Jackass? Sounds to me he sold you a boat that is performing within "factory" specs? :D:D

[b.c. outboards]

this answer maybe days later but usually proper setup for a prop is to run the boat with a prop in close to what pitch you think is right based on experience and any good tech should have good idea from past setups on size and run the boat with just you and the gas and it trimmed up to its fasted speed and check the rpm then you have a better idea where you need to go with prop size based on w.o.t.

[Island Fish Lifter]

quote:Originally posted by b.c. outboards

this answer maybe days later but usually proper setup for a prop is to run the boat with a prop in close to what pitch you think is right based on experience and any good tech should have good idea from past setups on size and run the boat with just you and the gas and it trimmed up to its fasted speed and check the rpm then you have a better idea where you need to go with prop size based on w.o.t.


gee, ya think?

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!