Boat trailering

[pescador]

I have a 2008 Road Runner trailer (tandem) with surge brakes to haul my 21 ft center console Hydra Sport which weights about 4000lbs all in (fuel, motor gear etc). The trailer weights approx 1500 lbs so I've got about 5500 lbs being dragged behind my Denali which is rated to tow 7700 lbs. The Denali weights 5500 lbs so the overall compensating balance is reasonable. The trailer is as new and the brakes work well as I've tested them both myself and had SG Power service them last year. The boat is well adjusted on the trailer. I've got it winched down tight both front and back and it tows like a dream. I hose down the trailer after every launch and its as new.
So, I made a couple of trips from Victoria to Gold River last year up the Island Hwy to fish Nootka Sound. I have to be honest, driving through Nanaimo with all the stop lights on the Hwy makes me a little nervous that I'll be able to deal with an immediate need to stop when your traveling at 80 KPH. Just curious how other people with 20 ft plus boats that tow them deal with this uncertainty? It's a fair bit of weight and I'd be curious if people feel surge brakes are the best option or going electric may be better? I've never had an emergency where I had to hammer on the brakes and try to stop on a dime and frankly I hope I never have to.

Matador

[Charlie]

You “should” be okay!

If you do have to “hammer” your brakes… As long as everything is in good shape, the brakes work and in good shape, with “even” wear; plus, none of the following is out of whack - it will mostly stop straight. Regardless of electric or surge brakes! You still have to consider the road condition?

There is a label on your driver’s side door frame “door tag”! This will list some things to keep in mind while towing - Some think they are all important others, seem to think they aren’t? I personally have been guilty of violating all, at one time or another. I really don’t think that was any of my smarter decisions and do recommend becoming familiar with these, if towing. If something does happen, they will “all” suddenly be looked at and they “very much” come into play during the accident investigation.

I am thinking you might be a lot closer (possibly exceeding) your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) and depending on what you carry maybe the Payload capacity? And, that will affect handling and stopping capabilities?

Simply put the GVWR is your vehicle, all in - including everything - gas, weight of driver and passengers, optional equipment, cargo, and including tongue weight while towing. You will have to determine the tongue weight, as they are all different. The recommended tongue weight is 10% to 15% of the total trailer weight (yes, you should load and weigh it). This means you should be no less that 550 and not exceed 825 pounds, based on the weight of boat and trailer given? Remember that number comes out of your Payload and is part of your GVW! Tongue weight will also affect your handling and stopping capabilities.

Maximum trailer ratings are calculated assuming standard equipped vehicle, driver, and required trailering equipment. The weight of all option equipment, passengers, and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. This basically means you also have to worry about the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). This can be found on the same label inside the vehicle's door frame. This is probably the one that gets overlooked the most and “will” get you in trouble, it will also very much effect handling and braking capabilities!. Depending on your vehicle type and year your maximum GCWR can fall anywhere from 10,000 – 13,000 pounds.

Just for giggles take a look at the Front and Rear axle and Front and Rear spring capacities, along with your rated Payload, while reading the “door tag”. Under “normal” circumstances, even while towing you will not exceed your axle or spring ratings unless you carry something heavy, but people quite often do exceed Payload rating while towing!

Bored yet? Now, don’t forget about your tires and the inflation pressure, yes they are rated and can differ with towing. Tires are specified by the manufacturer. The rating is based on the weight and speed that the tire can handle. When you hook that trailer up, you need to check your tires to insure you are within their rating and pressure. You may need to adjust your pressure, to compensate for the additional weight?

So to recap, which is the reason “should” was used. We know: Boat about 4000lbs, trailer approx 1500 lbs, Denali rated tow 7700 lbs, Denali weight 5500 lbs. You are correct, you "should" be in very good shape as discribed! But, may I suggest you find and consider the things we don’t know: GVWR, GCWR, Payload, Tongue Weight, Tire Pressure and Rating? These things can and do get people hurt!

Hope I didn't bore you too much! :)



http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/charlie4278/DSC01311-1-2.jpg

[NewMoon]

My boat weighs about 11,500 pounds on the triple-axle trailer with surge brakes. I tow it with a big long diesel pickup with manual transmission, more than 50,000 miles so far.

Even with all the brakes working well, it sure isn't going to stop very quickly, so I keep speed moderate, and avoid running close behind the vehicles ahead of me. In traffic I'm super vigilant, looking out for potential problems, like a light that may be about to change, or someone who might be pulling out in front of me. It takes a lot of concentration in traffic, and it is nervous-making at times - no way around that.

You might help yourself get a bit more comfortable by trying some fairly hard stops in a safe area, just to see how it handles.



Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[vetteman]

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave

[Fishing Guide]

Cheers All,

I have a 2007 22' boat on a 2007 tandem EZ Loader trailer and live in Nanaimo. As the boat lives on the trailer in it's own garage on my property, I am constantly pulling it up and down Vancouver Island. All the components were new when purchased and the truck was also new (2007) so I have a fair amount of 'faith' in the combination will do what is requested. I have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone else has done something pretty stupid on the highway. The unit has responded exceptionally well.

However...I simply slow down to the traffic flow when going through any town. When I reach the end of the traffic congestion, I speed up according to what the unit will comfortably accomodate and to what I feel comfortable. I put more faith in my ability to regulate the combo unit than to other limits.

Fishing Guide
www.invictuscharters.com
BC Outdoors Pro Staff
www.fishingvancouverisland.org

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave
Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!

[adrianna3]

I tow a 3500lb Lifetimer on a 4100lb single axle trailer. I had some jackass pull out in front of me on the highway in Nanoose (dry summer conditions). I hammered the brakes and the trailer brakes locked up and the wheel skidded. Surprised the hell out of me, but it worked well. Once we cleaned out our shorts we were on out way.

[pescador]

Great. Lots to think about here. Charlie, I'll need to determine the GCWR. I'm guessing at max I'd be pulling 11,500 lbs with both car and boat fuel tanks full, 4 passengers and all my gear included. I weighted the SUV while connected to the boat last August. All 4 wheels on the scale with boat attached came in at 5918 lbs and the trailer axles weighted at the same time came in at 5170 lbs. These weights were with the tanks full, lots of gear, ice, four passengers and of course 8 large Springs on board. I still need to weight the tongue as that's one thing I've never done. Based on my calculations I may be a little light on the 10-15% requirement. I am very cautious with air pressure maintaining the trailer at 60 lbs as suggested on the tire and by manufacturers web site. I keep my Denali tire pressure at about 32 lbs, but, don't change it when I tow so maybe there's a need to review that. My SUV is an 07 and has very large brakes and again is well maintained. I think one thing I may do in 2010 which I haven't done in the past is make sure the boat fuel tank is as close to zero fuel as I can get it before I hit the highway. Full fuel load is close to 700 Lbs. I assume others follow this approach?

Matador

[profisher]

I tow my 22 Seasport on a 5800lb Shorland'r trailer with disc brakes. The tow vehicle is a Dodge 2500 diesel, with a stick. I travel up to Gold River and keep it wound up to 115K's on the cruise once past Nanaimo. Last year I never kicked it off cruise until I hit the Shell just before C.R. The disc brakes are the ticket, but with any brakes give yourself lots of room ahead and relax.

[Charlie]

4 passengers 8 large Springs = 5 people? and only 8 Springs? That might be considered "a Catastrophe"? :)

Your GCWR should be on your “door tag”? Based on what you just stated, you should be fine?

As far as tongue weight... you might want to check that? Lighter is not good, if you are less than 10% you could "jack knife"? I really like to be around 12%, but 10 - 15% is fine!

Just make sure you aren’t exceeding maximum “GVWR” and “Payload”?

[vetteman]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie


quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave
Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!


I don't think that you'll find that true Charlie.If you travel in BC you have to abide by BC laws.Not Utah laws.That's the way it's been in the 52 years that I've lived and driven here.
Dave

[NewMoon]

Seems to me it may be time to invest in electric over hydraulic braking. Any preferences as to brand/model? Any other tips on installation and setup?


Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[spring fever]

I side with Charlie on that one-it's the same with the boating regs-lic. we have to have a boaters card but foreigners don't. We can drive through California with a vehicle that doesn't comply with their emission regs but if you are a california resident you wouldn't get 10 miles with the same rig. My take on it only!

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Originally posted by Charlie
I don't think that you'll find that true Charlie.If you travel in BC you have to abide by BC laws.Not Utah laws.That's the way it's been in the 52 years that I've lived and driven here.
Dave


Nah, Dave… I don't think so? You might want to check a little closer on that? [:0]

Should I start with the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic, which both Canada and the U.S. were signature of, or just jump straight to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic agreed upon at the United Nations Economic and Social Council's Conference on Road Traffic (October 7, 1968 - November 8, 1968) and done in Vienna on 8 November 1968. That would be 41 years ago, of your 52 years! Sorry, just couldn't resist! :)

Of course now, I do admit I had a little advantage - I have been running around oversea and in "a lot" of different countries for the last 42 years. Also, if I am wrong it sure wouldn't be the first, nor last? But, I think, I might be right on this? :D:D

The vehicle and trailer are governed by the resident country. Unless, you are talking about importing? Then the vehicle or equipment imported must comply with the import country. (eg emissions, odometer, running lights)

So if I am drunk, speeding, etc, I may have a problem with BC laws and you could throw me in jail? However, if I am “traveling and visiting” with my "surge" brakes, please don't arrest me... I'd have to sic Obama on you! [:I] :D

You can read the entire Vienna Convention on Road Traffic here, http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf
Believe me it is a "very" dry read. Here’s a recap for you:

quote: One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognize the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. However, the following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:
• Cars must display their registration number at the front and rear, even if legislation in the jurisdiction of registration does not require a front vehicle registration plate on cars. Motorcycles need display their registration number only at the rear. Registration numbers must be displayed in Latin characters and Arabic numerals. In addition to this, the registration number may optionally be displayed in a different alphabet.
• A distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The physical requirements for this sign are defined in Annex 3 of the convention, which states that it must comprise black writing on a white oval background and that it must not form part of the vehicle's registration number. In practice, the requirement to display the white oval is mutually waived between some countries, for example between many European countries (where the white oval may be substituted by a blue strip on the vehicle registration plate) and between Canada, the United States and Mexico (where the state or province of registration is usually embossed or surface-printed on the vehicle registration plate).
• The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration. Any conflicting technical requirements (e.g. right-hand-drive or left-hand-drive) in the signatory country where the vehicle is being driven do not apply.
• The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle (for example a hire car), proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle.

[NewMoon]

The reciprocity in boating licenses is clearly documented on BC's web sites. Anyone able to point to similar documentation on a BC website relative to trailering? The BC rules I found make no mention of it.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[finaddict]

Some interesting info for bed time reading...

Brake Requirements
All trailers and towing dollies (car dollies) must have brakes on all wheels when their GVW (trailer/dolly and load) exceeds 1,400 kg (3,086 pounds). Every trailer with brakes must have a breakaway device hooked to the trailer brake system.
Surge brakes must be used when towing a vehicle that has a gross vehicle weight (GVW) of up to and including 2,800 kg (6,173 pounds).
From 2,800 kilograms and up the towed vehicle brakes must be able to be applied by the driver of the tow vehicle.
Motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without brakes hooked up on the towed motor vehicle, when the towed motor vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and its load) is:
less than 2,000 kg (4,409 pounds), and
less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the motorhome towing it.
Motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2,000 kg and over towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device hooked up.


Maximum widths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total overall width for recreational vehicles is 2.6 metres (8 feet 6 inches)
Mirrors (only) may exceed the width of the vehicle by 20 cm (8 inches) on each side.

Maximum lengths for Recreational Vehicles
Maximum total length for a motorhome is 14.0 metres (45.93 fee).
Maximum length for a towed recreational vehicle is 12.5 metres (41 feet).
Maximum overall length for a combination is 20.0 metres (65.6 feet)

For more information on the above, and other matters related to recreational vehicles, visit the BC Ministry of Transportation & Infrastructure website (Commercial Vehicle Safety and Enforcement) at www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse, or contact your nearest weighscale/inspection station, or call ICBC at 1-800-950-1498.

[Island Fish Lifter]

Im not even gonna post my towing apparatus.. Im sure Im a complete and utter moving violation. That said, my trailer brakes work great and move slow and steady. Hopefully next year I can afford a 1-ton dually, hopefully a diesel.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/untitled.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[vetteman]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie


quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Remember too that depending where you are and the GVW of your trailer,surge brakes may or may not be legal.
Pescador,your trailer,at 5500# would be legal to tow on BC as long as the rated GVW is not over 6000#.Over 600# surge brakes are not legaql for use in BC.
New Moons trailer however,with a load of 11,500#,and regardless of the GVW of the trailer would not be legal to use in BC.
It cost my buddy $7500 for a new electric/hydraulic trailer a few years back when the RCMP stopped him in Parksville,weighed his unit and declared it to be illegal with the surge brakes that he had on it.
Dave
Good point! Pescador has be within BC laws! However, New Moon being from Utah, is fine in BC with surge brakes, as he has to abide by Utah laws!

Btw... My boat weighs in at 14,000 fully loaded, plus my tri-axle, it handles quite well. I agree with Fishing Guide's comments and seldom have issues. I do maintain and watch things closely! I too have had several occasions when I have had to 'step on the brakes' when someone has done stupid things and while not nerveous, I have had several things get my attention!


Here we go beating a dead horse but I was sure that Charlie was wrong on this issue so I stopped in at the Vehicle Inspection Facility today on my way up to Port Alberni.These are the guys who enforce all the laws when it comes to both commercial and non commercial road regulations.They are also the guys who give out the fines.
I was told that what Charlie says is a common misconception and it's totally wrong.In BC you MUST abide by the laws of the province.The laws and road rules of a persons home province or state do not apply here.When I mentioned the Geneva Convention that Charlie referred to he just snickered and said to quote that when you're being written up and your boat and trailer is being loaded onto a flatdeck and sent back to the border(which he said said costs the owner a pile of money).That is now standard procedure when an owner can't legally tow his boat and trailer.
Sorry Chuck,but that's the way it is up here as of January 11,2010 at 8:25AM and according to the officer I spoke to,has been for a long time.
Dave

[Gunsmith]

So true, when in Rome do as the Romans. BC highways are owned by the province and are subject to BC regulations and how they are enforced.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[NewMoon]

Vetteman, thanks for checking with the authorities. Though I have towed between the US border and Prince Rupert many times without my trailer's setup being questioned, it sounds like I need to upgrade.

I spose it's time to invest in electric over hydraulic braking. Any preferences as to brand/model? Any other tips on installation and setup?


Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[vetteman]

The thing on Vancouver Island is that probably 90% of the guys who come here to fish,go up island from Nanaimo(to Ucluelet,Tofino,Bamfield,Port Hardy)which means that you have to drive right by the Vehicle Inspection Scale.They're going to see you drive by right in front of them.The enforcement officers are only doing their job although I've known of a few RCMP officers who took things just a bit too seriously.You should see some of the units that I've seen over in Uclcuelet.26'boats on homemade trailers with no brakes at all.Scary to look at.
I don't want to see a fellow angler nailed with a big fine and towing bill just because someone posts bad information on this site.
Dave

[Charlie]

Nah, Dave... Your new friend is wrong!

If you are a BC resident, and your "personal" rig is "legal" in BC... It is legal in the U.S. If my rig is legal in Washington... It is legal in any state and BC. You still must abid by their laws, but the actual rig is legal. Note... you still need proper permits...eg "oversize load", "over weight", etc.

Like I have mentioned before, don't argue with anyone just ask if it is easier to follow them to the station or have a supervisor come to you? Both the U.S. and Canada signed and agreed to abid by the Vienna Convention on road Traffic.

I have the actual agreement at home, but what 'Wikipedia' is stating is correct. You should be able to find it but here is a link to get you started. That is like saying "you" also have to have a "Washington" drivers license... Nope!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

"One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognise the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. However, the following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:

Cars must display their registration number at the front and rear, even if legislation in the jurisdiction of registration does not require a front vehicle registration plate on cars. Motorcycles need display their registration number only at the rear. Registration numbers must be displayed in Latin characters and Arabic numerals. In addition to this, the registration number may optionally be displayed in a different alphabet.

A distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The physical requirements for this sign are defined in Annex 3 of the convention, which states that it must comprise black writing on a white oval background and that it must not form part of the vehicle's registration number. In practice, the requirement to display the white oval is mutually waived between some countries, for example between many European countries (where the white oval may be substituted by a blue strip on the vehicle registration plate) and between Canada, the United States and Mexico (where the state or province of registration is usually embossed or surface-printed on the vehicle registration plate).

The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration. Any conflicting technical requirements (e.g. right-hand-drive or left-hand-drive) in the signatory country where the vehicle is being driven do not apply.
The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle (for example a hire car), proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle."

BTW... he won't be snickering very much about being written up and my boat and trailer being loaded onto a flatdeck and sent back to the border(which he said said costs the owner a pile of money), when I send "that" bill to Canada and BC, along with my demand for damages with his name on it! You might want to stop in and let him know he needs to do a little homework and check on that! :D

[vetteman]

Hi Chuck,
I could have asked the officer if we could go to the station or talk to a supervisor except that we were at the station and I was talking to the supervisor.
I find it amazing that a fellow who lives thousands(?)of kilometers(miles) away from here is better versed in the British Columbia rules of the road than those that live here and are hired and trained to enforce those rules.
Now the fact is,I couldn't give a rats a** if you come to our province and find yourself written up.If you or anyone else wants to do that it's your perrogative.The fact is that illegal rigs are written up in BC and then sent home.That tidbit came direct to me from the fellow(as you call him,my new friend)who's job it is to do just that.Sorry Chuck,Vienna Convention or not you're gonna get fined.You can send your bill to Canada but I somehow don't think that it's gonna get paid.

Dave

[Peahead]

I think I have to agree with Charlie on this one.

Just to give a simple example to explain why I think Charlie is correct:
A local law for a resident can prevail no matter where they travel, for example in Alberta a vehicle does not need a to display a front license plate. In BC esident vehicles do have to have a front licence plate displayed. If an Alberta resident travels to BC in a Alberta registered vehicle it is not required to display a front licence plate as it crosses the border into BC and visits the province of BC because the law of the vehicles resident province prevails.
There is a lot of logic to this really. Can you imagine travelling through several provinces and states on one long road trip and being required to make several expensive alterations to your vehicle every time you entered a new state or province with a different reqirement ( by law to those residents) I don't think so.
The laws of the land are a different story however.... Charlie is talking about the rig itself .....not the laws of the land.

[profisher]

How many higher up government officials actually know what they are talking about? Why should you always get a name when a person in their position tells you "this is the way it is"? Because someone else in the same department will have a completely different answer the next time you ask. That supervisor is likely blowing smoke. Just what he felt like saying that day.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by vetteman

Hi Chuck,
I could have asked the officer if we could go to the station or talk to a supervisor except that we were at the station and I was talking to the supervisor.
I find it amazing that a fellow who lives thousands(?)of kilometers(miles) away from here is better versed in the British Columbia rules of the road than those that live here and are hired and trained to enforce those rules.
Now the fact is,I couldn't give a rats a** if you come to our province and find yourself written up.If you or anyone else wants to do that it's your perrogative.The fact is that illegal rigs are written up in BC and then sent home.That tidbit came direct to me from the fellow(as you call him,my new friend)who's job it is to do just that.Sorry Chuck,Vienna Convention or not you're gonna get fined.You can send your bill to Canada but I somehow don't think that it's gonna get paid.

Dave

Well Dave... simply put, you are completely wrong! And, might I add... when one does travel in a foreign country, they really do need to know what is legal and not!

First, I don’t live “thousands of kilometers(miles) away”… that would be approximately 130 miles and I cross the border quite often with boats and trailers.

Second, apparently some are “not” better versed in British Columbia “rules of the road”??? Which should be “laws” and "internatioal agreements"??? Maybe “they” should be “trained” a little better?

Third, I really don’t care either, if someone wants to spend their money needlessly. That is thier perrogative!

Fourth, the fact is… IT IS “NOT” ILLEGAL!

Fifth, if I was to receive a fine… either BC or Canada would be paying it and would also be liable for my damages! That… IS A FACT!

Six, why don’t "you" take the time to look it up, rather than just taking someone's word for it, before just telling everyone they have to spend money?[?]

Seven, it would be “Charlie” or should I start I just start calling you “Davy, Davie, Diana, Dena, etc”?

[searun]

Guys you are both wrong, well sort of.:):) Sorry. Charlie you are quoting the incorrect Statute, but it is contained there because B.C. must abide by the Vienna Convention, so that requirement is actually contained in our own Statute.

Attached below for your reference are the B.C. Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations detailing what you require by way of brakes and compliance. I would suggest a close read of the enclosed Motor Vehicle Act Section 21 which spells out definitively that the guy at the Weight Station in Parksville does not know his rear end[:o)] from a hole in the ground.[B)][B)][B)]

First, if you are a [u]B.C. Resident</u> operating a truck and trailer combination where the trailer GVW exceeds 2800 KG or 6160 pounds, you will need to have coordinated brakes (electric over hydraulic) on every wheel. So if you import a tandem axle trailer from the US which has only brakes on 2 of the 4 wheels, then you must retrofit the trailer to comply with these regulations, and it must pass an inspection within 30 days of arrival here.

Second, if you are a resident of the US and the requirement in the jurisdiction you reside only requires brakes on 2 of 4 wheels you are also good to go. That guy at the Commercial Weigh Scale is offering advice in [u]error</u>.[:0] He clearly was giving an opinion off the top of his head, without actually looking up the law. Section 21 states clearly that you are only required to abide by the law in your State of residence. Moreover, B.C. is a signatory to the Vienna Convention, and therefore in law must abide by it...period the end, thus why the Convention agreement is contained in our own Statute.

That weigh scale guy needs to read the law and become familiar with it.[V] All he is relying upon is his poor [}:)] knowledge of the B.C. Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations....buffoon. If you are worried about that or want to have some fun with the "buffoon", go back and show him the M.V. Act and Vienna Convention and ask him to reconsider his position. Dumb A#@. :D:D:D:D

Simply put, Charlie is absolutely correct, just quoting the incorrect Statute. His trailer only has to pass the legal requirements of the State within which he is a resident. If he stays here in B.C. as a tourist and stays beyond 6 months, he would however have to change the trailer to comply and register and insure the trailer here in B.C. If Charlie is here to work as a guide, he must change his insurance and registration and comply with our laws within 30 days.

Here is the Motor Vehicle Act, Section 21 for your reference:

Registration of foreign motor vehicles and trailers
21 (1) The owner of a motor vehicle or trailer

(a) that is duly registered outside British Columbia,
(b) for which the licensing requirements of the jurisdiction in which it is registered are fulfilled, and
(c) that has displayed on it the registration number plates of that jurisdiction for the current year, or is a trailer that is designed exclusively to carry one axle of a motor vehicle for the purpose of towing that motor vehicle behind another motor vehicle and is from a jurisdiction that does not issue registration number plates for that type of trailer,
is exempt from the requirements to register and license the motor vehicle or trailer under this Act, if
(d) the owner or operator of the motor vehicle or trailer is in British Columbia for, and uses the motor vehicle or trailer for, touring purposes only, for a period of 6 months, or
(e) the owner or operator of the motor vehicle or trailer is in British Columbia for, and uses the motor vehicle or trailer for, other than touring purposes, for a period of 30 days
from the date he or she began to operate the motor vehicle or trailer on a highway in British Columbia.
(2) If a motor vehicle or trailer is owned by a person resident outside British Columbia who has complied with the laws of his or her place of residence with respect to the registration and licensing of the motor vehicle or trailer and the motor vehicle or trailer has displayed on it the registration number plates for the current year assigned under those laws for that motor vehicle or trailer and is brought into British Columbia


Here is Section 5.03 of the M.V. Act Regulations:

Trailer brakes
(3) A trailer shall be equipped with brakes at each end of each axle, but brakes are not required
(a) on one axle of a house trailer that is equipped with more than 2 axles,
(b) on any axle of a trailer other than a towing dolly if the licensed vehicle weight of the trailer
(i) is 1 400 kg or less, and
(ii) is less than 50% of the licensed vehicle weight of the vehicle by which it is being towed,
(c) on any axle of a towing dolly towed by a motor vehicle where
(i) the aggregate of the net weight of the towing dolly and the gross vehicle weight of the motor vehicle one axle of which is being carried by the towing dolly does not exceed 1 400 kg, or
(ii) the motor vehicle towing the towing dolly has a gross vehicle weight rating in excess of the aggregate of
(A) the net weight of the towing dolly,
(B) the gross vehicle weight of the motor vehicle one axle of which is being carried by the towing dolly, and
(C) the gross vehicle weight of the motor vehicle towing the towing dolly,
(d) on any axle of a motor vehicle one axle of which is being carried by a towing dolly, and
(e) on any axle of a trailer that consists of a piece of construction machinery towed by a truck where the truck has a gross vehicle weight rating in excess of the aggregate of the gross vehicle weights of the trailer and the truck.
(4) Brakes with which a trailer is equipped shall
(a) when applied be adequate to maintain control of the trailer,
(b) when applied not affect the direction of travel of the trailer, and
(c) where the licensed vehicle weight of the trailer exceeds 2 800 kg, be capable of being applied by the driver of the motor vehicle towing the trailer from his normal seated position.
(5) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a motorcycle shall be equipped with a brake on each wheel in contact with the ground, other than a wheel attached directly to a sidecar, and the brake on a rear wheel shall be operated by a right foot control, except where the motorcycle has a motor that produces 3.75 kW or less, in which case the rear wheel brake may be operated by a control mounted on the left handlebar.
(6) Brakes and coordinated brake control are not required on a motor vehicle with gross vehicle weight less than 2 800 kg which is being towed by
(a) a commercial vehicle with gross vehicle weight rating over 5 500 kg, or
(b) a rubber tired road building machine such as a motor-grader with normal operating weight rating over 5 500 kg,
provided that the aggregate weight of the combination does not exceed
(c) the gross vehicle weight rating of the towing motor vehicle, or
(d) in the case of a rubber tired road building machine, the registered test weight in the compliance testing of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1473 brake performance standard.
(7) Brakes and coordinated brake control are not required on a towed motor vehicle that has a laden gross vehicle weight less than 2 000 kg and that is less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating of a motor home towing it via a tow bar.
[am. B.C. Regs. 69/59, s. (j); 46/67, s. 10; 226/67, s. 4; 205/72, s. 6; 343/77; 459

Searun

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/LastCastGuiding/th_067.jpg

[Gunsmith]

Straight from the horses mouth! Thanks for the info and now I can take that off my mind. Thank you.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[pescador]

I just wanted an opinion of how others deal with hauling there rig up and down the Island Highway. More along the lines of "hands on experiences" driving, braking, loading tricks, and defensive driving. I didn't expect a lesson in international treaties or bi-lateral agreements between us and our close friends to the south. All very informative, but, I don't see a need to get into a disagreement about the matter. In any case, thanks for the insight and information from everyone who contributed....

Matador

[pescador]

Holmes, I apologize. I still owe you a recipe. Will get it to you sometime before CC opens..Promise..

Matador

[NewMoon]

Thank you, Searun!

And pescador - I forgot to mention it, and I didn't see it mentioned by anyone else (I may have missed it): When I'm trailering I make sure not only all the trailer tires, but also the rears on my tow vehicle are pumped up to their max air pressure. I've tried towing with and without doing the max on the tow vehicle rears, and it does make a substantial difference in stability.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[pescador]

New Moon, what is the weight of your boat/trailer? What's the towing capacity of your vehicle and what type is it? Just curious to know what percentage of capacity your at. Your boat looks like its fairly heavy. Thanks for the tip of tire pressure in your truck.

Matador

[NewMoon]

Hi Matador,

The boat/trailer loaded up for a long cruise but with relatively empty fuel is usually about 11,500 lb - a lot! The Bounty 257 is unusually heavily built. It's tall too, so it makes for a lot of air resistance. Headwinds are a pain in the fuel bill. On a good day towing I get 11 mpg, but against a strong headwind sometimes as little as 9.

The trailer was originally rated for 10,000 lb, but the boat came out heavier than I anticipated. Original tongue weight was 1200-1300, and the wheel bearings were wearing out sooner than they should have. I added a third axle and slid the axle assembly back and forth until I got the tongue weight right (950-1000 depending on load), and it tows very well, even in a major cross wind. Don't walk out into the street right in front of me, though.

The truck's a 98 Dodge Ram 2500 quad-cab w/ Cummins 24-valve diesel and 5-speed manual transmission (good for mountains, which are everywhere I tow). It has the "camper package" - meant to be able to handle a slide-in camper - which makes the rear springs heavier, great for heavy trailering. It also has adjustable Rancho 9000XL shocks, which I set for greater damping when towing.

It's long, the suspension is very hefty, and the diesel has bags of torque (all key items). Officially its GCVWR is 16,000 lb, but it does a great job with a total in excess of 18,000. I wouldn't want to haul much more without going to a dually, even though trucks like mine from later years have considerably greater capacity ratings.


Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)

[eastpoint]

I am looking at a 26 ft Northriver OS Alum boat about 6500 lbs dry weight. I can get either a triple axle or tandem axle trailer as part of the package. What are the pros and cons of each?
I do plan to get electric/hydralic brakes as per previous discussion. I do a moderate amount of towing but sometimes on rougher roads IE over to WCVI/Port Renfrew a couple of times per year. Truck is F150 with towing package. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks

Eastpoint

[NewMoon]

A triple has more redundancy to protect you in a blowout situation, and may run with more stability if tongue weight is approaching the max for your truck.

OTOH, it's more expensive, more pieces to maintain, and scuffs tires when turning sharply more than a twin.

I started with a twin, but had to add a third axle as my boat was much heavier than I had anticipated and it was too hard on wheel bearings, tires, etc. For me the triple did the job.

Seems to me you should be able to get a twin with plently of weight capacity for your boat (make sure you accurately calculate total loaded weight, and have a decent margin of extra capacity).

Tongue weight should be 8-10% of fully loaded trailer - will your F150 handle it?

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)
"Cruising in a Big Way"

[eastpoint]

Thanks Newmoon

The cost is the same as the boat is already on a triple axle, they will switch to tandem if I don't want triple. Is the tire scuffing while turning hard a significant issue, other than that are there any downsides to triple? Does the triple better wear less as there is less load per tire and brake?

Eastpoint

[NewMoon]

I don't think the tire scuffing is very significant, but I don't turn very sharply very often. I do see rubber on my driveway when I pull in and out.

I'm inclined to think the main downside is just that there's more to maintain. Two higher capacity axles might be a little less hassle than my triple, but I wouldn't spend a bunch of money to switch.

With my heavy boat, I definitely feel less vulnerable to road hazards with three axles.

Richard Cook
New Moon (Bounty 257)
"Cruising in a Big Way"

[J-GLOBAL]

Go Slower than 80 through Nanaimo.

Last year, a gentleman slammed on his brakes and turned his bronco sideways across both lanes (lucky not to roll) right in front of me.

His Starbucks sprayed all around his windows, and he looked relieved that he hadn't hit whatever it was he was avoiding and didn't get hit by me or the vehicle in the left lane.

Go slow through Nanaimo. No need to be doing 80

Fishin' anywhere anytime for anything

[eastpoint]

RE tandem or triple axle trailers

I called a friend Peter, who works in the boating industry and he suggested I call the trailer company who rebuilt my brakes and springs on my existing trailer ( they did a great job).

I spoken to Keith there and he had some very useful info. He said only buy a triple axle if it is required as it is more difficult to turn sharp while backing up and more parts to manitain.

Wheel size and number of bolts on rim are significant. The triple axle trailer I was offered with my new boat had five bolt rims and smaller rim/tires. Good for 3500 lbs per axle. Other tandem trailer has six bolt 16" rim/tires good for 5200 lbs per axle. So both trailers have similar capacity but tandem is less maintenance, easier to back up, and higher ground clearance.

Thats the one I picked. I also went to electric brakes as per the advice on this site. I have had a scare before with poor brakes, not fun.

Eastpoint