Anybody know this old clunker?

[geo_tonz]

Olivia Newton John shook her money maker while singing "Magic". The Beachcombers were in the middle of their 19 year run. Women sported shoulder pads, mini-skirts and leg warmers.

And I'm willing to bet one of you fine fellows had a shiny new 1980 Johnson 85hp V4. Or maybe some of you have owned one since? Am I the only one that currently has one?

This is what currently graces the transom of my recent acquisition and I was wondering if anyone can tell me anything about them? Any quirks, weak points, things to watch for/check out, reliability issues, breakdowns and fixes...any info would be greatly appreciated!


http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv47/geo_tonz/IMG_3272.jpg

Thanks in advance.

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[geo_tonz]

Also: it has no external zincs. Likely because it was originally sold in Manitoba (dealer sticker still legible). Should I be attaching some to the top side of the cavitation plate?

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[sherboat]

I wasn't old enough to own one then. But on the topic of Zincs, isn't that a zinc right above the prop, the dual purpose kind to counter rotational forces from the prop?

[geo_tonz]

Well I'm not sure...some trim tabs are aluminum and some are zinc. I suspect that this one is aluminum as it doesn't appear to be pitting/turning white/dissolving like the small zinc anodes I've seen on other outboards. Some other forums have mentioned zinc for salt water, aluminum for brackish and magnesium for fresh. Though I have heard putting zinc AND aluminum sacrificials on at the same time can be bad as they then sacrifice for each other and not the outboard.

On that note maybe I should just replace the trim tab with a zinc one?

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Sea Ranger]

quote:On that note maybe I should just replace the trim tab with a zinc one?
Yes I would replace it with a zinc. Also, I just replaced the zincs on my outboard and I also had a zinc on the bottom of the transom mount as well that I replaced so if your boat is still "hot" after replacing the one zinc maybe think about putting on a second one. Steve.

And remember....Keep your tip up!!! http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/fishinfool7/fish.gif

[geo_tonz]

Thanks Steve. After spending some time on Iboat.com I discovered that the trim tab is supposed to be aluminum and painted on these motors (I guess so it doesn't turn into an anode itself?). They said that these motors didn't come with zincs and to add one to the top of the cavitation plate (http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=272177&highlight=zinc).
No zincs...well that doesn't make me nervous!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Gunsmith]

In that horsepower range, they were quite reliable. As you can see that one is still around. The higher horsepower for the same cubes gave more trouble and had a shorter life.
I owned a 15 horse 1981 and a 90 horse 1984 and I had no problems what so ever other than the 90 loved gas, 4 mpg on a jet.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[geo_tonz]

Thanks Gunsmith...makes me feel a bit better!
Yeah, it does seem to be a bigger pig that I had hoped but seems to run all right.

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Gunsmith]

One important thing to check is that you have the right prop for your boat. Your motor should run at the 5500rpm mark with the load you will always have in the boat. It can run around 5200 to 5700. This where they are at their best. Your prop is your governor on an outboard and it will decide whether you grenade your engine or lug it to death.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[profisher]

Gun..your right and wrong about the prop being the governor...the max rpms are limited by the prop the actual rpms turned is governed by the operator. The operator can always over ride the prop as a governor by lightening the load, letting it suck air and cavatating, etc etc.
With outboards I've always gone for long life by going with a slightly smaller prop which will allow the engine to spin up past max red line if you let it. The trick is not to take it up past the red line. Basically you will be running a lower gear and putting less strain on the rods, wrist pins and crank in turn. Especially coming out of the hole!! Yes a little less top end speed, but I don't run my 200 Yami much past 42-4300rpms (29-30mph) even though I could turn 5700.

[Gunsmith]

I hear ya I did not want to go into it but what I meant was that if you have the right prop for what you are doing you will not over-rev.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[Island Fish Lifter]

I would make sure the overheat alarm works. Those units were notorious for air locking at idle. All you need to do if that happens is rev it up to increase your water pressure.. I dont know what else to tell you, I use to work on those almost every day and there were no real consistant problems. I guess make sure your thermostats are allowing your temp to come up to 140- 160 degrees. I hope you love the smell of 2- stk smoke in the morning![:p]

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/nootkalasttrip015.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[geo_tonz]

IFL:Yeah it's a bit of a switch from my dad's nice shiny Honda 90 that I used to steal to go fishing whenever I could. It's always fun to leave the folks eating at the Pier Pub deck in a cloud of blue smoke though (The deck overlooks the Comox ramp). That's after I rupture their ear drums with the brake squeal as I back my aged VW Vanagon down the ramp! Throw in my kids running around and I'm quite the show! A Honda 75 is on the long-term plan but I gotta get "the accountant" to love boating/fishing a whole lot more before that happens!

How would I check that the overheat alarm is working? I read some where that it is supposed to sound briefly on start-up to show it's working although that sounds a little hi-tech for this vintage.

Also how would I check that it is getting up to temp properly? Telltale temp? Laser temp gun-thingy (technical name).

"I use to work on those almost every day and there were no real consistent problems..." There was just lots of them out there requiring service or these were always in the shop?

Thanks again guys! There's plenty of other forums when you post something like this and never get any kind of response. Keep the good info coming! Can't believe it took me 'till now to find this forum!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Despy]

Go to the site below and click on the Johnson/Evenrude section and ask away. Lots of knowledgeable people there more than willing to help.
http://www.marineengine.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

[Peahead]

There should be a zinc anode mounted under the mounting bracket too.....so that the bracket is protected when motor up and moored in a marina

[chris73]

Hey geo, I don't have exectly the same engine but close: a 1979 70hp Johnson. Can tell you that there is nothing more robust than this piece of machinery. I have the ok for a new engine but only if the old one dies - and damn, it just runs and runs and will probably run for another 5 years! :( Only thing ever went during the 7 years I had it was the powerpack - the only electronic piece in it. Mind you mine is slightly different - 3 cylinder but otherwise probably the same setup. Yeah, it stinks and does not run smooth as silk but cheap on gas, cheap and plenty spare parts and besides some gear oil once per year, grease nipples filled few times per year, new plugs once per year and the manual 2stroke mix, there is nothing you need to do. No idea how many hours are on this piece - 23 years before I got it - I never run more than 15 or 20 min max each way on it but over the years I probably put 1000 hours in it myself. Wish they'd still build everlasting stuff like that today... I am sure you will get lots of life out of it.

Oh forgot: yeah, that trim plate does not come in a zinc version for these motors - looked for this myself some time ago. You need to add a couple of those small zinc nuggets to the top of the cavitation plates (one per side) and I added another to the mounting bracket - even that does not seem to get used up a lot.

[geo_tonz]

Thanks Despy, there's some good info on there. I found a little more model-specific stuff at iboats though (http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24).

Chris and Peahead: Zincs are a for-sure. Don't really know why it didn't come with any originally but thankfully it doesn't seem worse for wear because of it. Glad to hear you've had such a positive (if never-ending) experience with your motor Chris. They seem very solid. Wish I'd done this research pre-purchase but thankfully it seems to be turning out alright.

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Island Fish Lifter]

To check overheat alarm- At the top of each cyl head, there is a sensor with a wire coming out of it, that vintage will probably have a "scissor" type connector.. it will be clear when you see it. Simply turn your key on and ground each lead one at a time, at least that will tell you if your horn is working. I believe the horn will probably be mounted in your controll box. If its not working, and your handy, you can rig one up under the dash.

The easiest way to check head temp at idle is to put your hand at the top of each head. When its up to temp, you should be able to hold your hand there for 4 or 5 seconds, until it gets too uncomfortable.

I worked at a dealer so I was around them all the time. They were quite easy to work on. That was when the FICHT system first came out. Unfortunately, it turned out to be their demise ,most of them blew up.. they were too fuel sensitive and pounded out wrist pins. I think Bombardier was able to refine it becoming what we know today as the E- Tech.


http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/nootkalasttrip015.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[geo_tonz]

Thanks IFL! I will check all that.

So far here's my list of stuff to do as far as this motor:
1.Drain and clean the tank (small chunkies seen in the transparent filter housing) and check filler cap seals and replace in-line filter.
2. Do a Decarb as outlined here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158076
3.Compression test just to see what's up.
4.Add zincs to top of cavitation plate and transom bracket.
5.Replace spark plugs
6.Change oil in lower unit and seals on filler/drain plugs
7.Clean and Die-electric grease any electrical Connections I can find.
8.Test overheat alarm.
9.Install a tach (Any suggestions as to type??) or at the very least check RPM at cruise to see how (have a tester).
10.Grease the crap out of it.
11.When/if the snow starts to fly i might rebuild the carbs.

Anything major I'm missing?
Any advantage for these old rigs to running fancier oil or am I throwing money away? I like Opti-2 for my chain saw as I'm not choking on smoke.

Again, thanks for all your help! I appreciate that you've taken the time. I suppose it helps that this topic comes after the fishing's died down or it'd be a lonely thread! Hopefully this post will help some other clunker-owners too!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[chris73]

I have always bought the cheap Canadian Tire outboard motor oil and it hasn't made me regret it yet. I don't think you need to go expensive for those old warriors. Just add enough.

[profisher]

Chris, I don't agree. Cheap oils have way more ash in them and deposits will build up behind the rings. Once this happens it is only a matter of time before a ring catches a port opening and gets snapped off...leading to the piston being taken out as well. OMC has a slight advantage against ring damage because they use a forged piston which requires a sloppier fit in the cylinder to allow for piston expansion. Cast pistons...like Yami's fit a lot tighter in the holes and are much more sensitive to ring breakage if deposits form. Ever wonder why Yami's sound so tight and smooth and why OMC's sound kinda clunky in comparison when they are first fired up cold? The OMC will have some piston slap when cold as it needs time for the forged piston to expand and reduce the tolerance between piston and cylinder walls.

[Gunsmith]

Right Profisher! Save a penny now pay a buck later. You have pointed out items a lot people don't consider.[^]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[geo_tonz]

I was afraid somebody might say something like this!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Gunsmith]

Hey Geo don't panic there are some you can save on but not oil.What you have sounds like a solid unit and you should make sure that the oil you use is not going to take it out.:D

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh420/Gunsmith_r/IMG_1445.jpg

[Island Fish Lifter]

Really solid advice Profisher. ;)

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/nootkalasttrip015.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[chris73]

As I said, I have been using the cheap oil for many years now with no negative side effects and probably saved me several hundred dollars with this strategy. That's a lot of money worth for a 30 year old engine that is already written off and not worth more than several hundred of dollars itself. But those are just my personal economics and of course a better and pricier oil is probably better even for this old warrior. But I also don't tell my wife to put the $400 Revlon creams on her face anymore - some pieces just don't get better anymore no matter how much you spoil them :D

[geo_tonz]

What oil would you boys suggest as a mid to high grade then? Reading through the iBoats forum the synthetic-blend Pennzoil keeps coming up as a slightly cheaper but good-quality oil. I won't be hitting parker marine for some xd-100 any time soon!


The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[profisher]

I'm using the OMC oil...the red stuff, I think it is TCW-3. Was using Yamilube initially but the OMC stuff is less expensive and Ken down at SG says it works just as well as the Yami oil.

[geo_tonz]

Well that wouldn't be too bad cost wise. I was thinking to buy something 'Middle of the road' and the XD-30 ("red stuff") fits the bill as a better-than-average TC-W3 oil. Will pick some up after this next tank full as I'm too cheap to not finish off the Ukrainian Tire Formula 1 (it is still a TC-W3 oil after all so far better than anything available when this motor was new). How is the XD-30 for smoke?

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[geo_tonz]

While I was out this morning I went to A&E marine and picked up some XD-30. I figured maybe I could find it a buck or two cheaper else ware but I was there and may as well pick it up. Then I stopped in at Parker Marine on the way home: they sell it in bulk in their own containers for $15 less (and you can get your container refilled which gives you $2 off the next time! In the end it's CHEAPER than Ukrainian Tire Brand!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Island Fish Lifter]

the canadian tire stuff is tc-w3 certified ans sometimes goes on sale for under 20$/ gal. I burnt when I had my 200 evinrudes.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee90/daveeyx/nootkalasttrip015.jpg
Fill the dam tub!

[geo_tonz]

Thanks IFL I'll keep an eye out. I think I'll stick with the BRP XD-30 for now though now that I have a cheap source. Maybe I'll give XD-50 a shot just to see.
GT

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[geo_tonz]

Well as this topic seems to be slowing to a halt I'd like to thank all of you who contributed info. This Forum's great because of people like you who step up to the plate to help a fellow sportsman out by sharing your hard-won knowledge!

If anyone else knows anything about these old battle axes, or has an old manual or spare parts they'd be willing to part with (free or otherwise) please contact me!

Thanks again everybody!

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[geo_tonz]

Just thought I'd share something obvious that didn't dawn on me 'till I was there with my 4 year old: The VI library has a very good collection of manuals (Chilton, Seloc) for most outboards and some inboards. Handy if you just want to check something out but don't want to shell out the $40 plus S+H or if you want to check out if it's worth ordering.

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...