2009 Salmon Returns

[chris73]

I thought I start a new thread for this as we always like to find this info later on in one place to reference for arguments; plus if all of you involved or interested in hatchery programs and all of you with local river experience post your knowledge about this year's returns we can get a good picture where our coast is at this year and where the "hot" and cold spots are. Latter is interesting for further anlysis about the whys and hows...

From what I have seen so far this year:

1) Campbell River/Quinsam R: Record returns of pinks (>800k), strong returns of springs, and expected good coho returns from first in-river counts and reports from fisherman in the approaching waters.

2) Sooke River: Hatchery volunteers had one attempt for brood stock today and got probably close to 30% of the springs they need in one shot. Water at the hatchery still too low otherwise they could have kept even more. Looks like a good year for springs. Chum showing already strong (quite early already) in the river. Coho only few so far but lots showing in the approaching waters outside the river. Looks like a good year for the Sooke.

3) Stamp River: Springs at 5k so far with 2X000 needed :(. Cohos and sockeye strong this year.



Any numbers and reports from other systems yet? Or updates on the mentioned rivers?

[Dirtdog67]

Do the other threads not speak for themselves, the whining and bitching about our so called managed fisheries gives any indication of how the 09' fishery was indicates the displeasurement of so many..
One thing that so many have to come to terms with is the fishery, as stellar as it was, had a huge applause to the yanks for beefing up their hatchery production, which kept us happy..
If it was not for the columbia and a handfull of other dedicated yet finacially based systems on our southern counterparts, we would be up **** creek trying to rely on what, as Canadas exuse for hatchery supplementation would have done for us.. A very pissed off dirty-:(

[sundance]

quote:Originally posted by chris73

I thought I start a new thread for this as we always like to find this info later on in one place to reference for arguments; plus if all of you involved or interested in hatchery programs and all of you with local river experience post your knowledge about this year's returns we can get a good picture where our coast is at this year and where the "hot" and cold spots are. Latter is interesting for further anlysis about the whys and hows...

From what I have seen so far this year:

1) Campbell River/Quinsam R: Record returns of pinks (>800k), strong returns of springs, and expected good coho returns from first in-river counts and reports from fisherman in the approaching waters.

2) Sooke River: Hatchery volunteers had one attempt for brood stock today and got probably close to 30% of the springs they need in one shot. Water at the hatchery still too low otherwise they could have kept even more. Looks like a good year for springs. Chum showing already strong (quite early already) in the river. Coho only few so far but lots showing in the approaching waters outside the river. Looks like a good year for the Sooke.

3) Stamp River: Springs at 5k so far with 2X000 needed :(. Cohos and sockeye strong this year.



Any numbers and reports from other systems yet? Or updates on the mentioned rivers?

[sundance]

chinook returns as of today,terrible 2 pairs,total of 8000 eggs,compared to last year of 300 chinook ,looks like that will be it for this year ,hopefully coho numbers will be our savior!

[sundance]

that reply was for the goldstream

[sundance]

we helped take chinook eggs last week at the nitnat hatchery we put down 1.5 million ,they have about 8000 chinook in the river ,so should make their goal of 4 mill,also their coho numbers will be down this year.we were to go to robertson creek to help them out ,they have less then 4000 in the river ,after that net fishery,plus the big derby,their numbers go over 25000,so we will pay big time for that!we have good numbers of coho holding in portege inlet long as the seals leave them alone,also coho in esquimalt harbour waiting for rains to go up the fish ladders up the millstream which had a return of 200 coho last year.will keepyou posted as we get some fish back in our lower island streams,gary [esquimalt anglers assoc .

[High Five]

Sorry what were the number of chinook in goldstream. You didn't mean a total of 4 did you??????

Smiley66

[Governor]

This update is for 7 October 2009. Details include an update of the fence enumeration and results from a swim count below the fence. Catalyst Pulp Mill was generous enough to give the salmon a pulse flow this past Sunday-Monday and this resulted in an increase in the number of Chinook and especially Coho passing through the fishway at the enumeration weir. The total enumeration as of this morning at 0800 is:
126 Chinook adults (very low for this time)
129 Chinook jacks
363 Coho adults
272 Coho jacks
19 Chum
116 PK
Today, DFO and Cowichan Tribes Guardians conducted a swim enumeration using 4 swimmers and 1 vessel. The swim was done from the fence downstream to the Silver Bridge (Highway 19). Water clarity was between one and two meters. The estimated number of salmon within this section was:
280 Chinook adults
250 Chinook jacks
225 Coho adults
190 Coho jacks
3 live Pink
5 dead Pink 4 Chum
The Chinook and Coho seemed bright and may have entered the Cowichan River during the pulse flow. Here's hoping for lousy, wet weather next week!





God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Tailspin]

I have really heard alot of mixed numbers on returns to various systems so far, not sure what to make of it yet? Some great reports and some awful. It would be nice to just look at a site to see actual numbers as reported to date, is there anything?

www.tailspincharters.com

[sundance]

quote:Originally posted by smiley66

Sorry what were the number of chinook in goldstream. You didn't mean a total of 4 did you??????

Smiley66


4 springs is all we got,there was 25 or so down by the nature house but were taken by somebody else ?

[sundance]

[quote]Originally posted by Tailspin

I have really heard alot of mixed numbers on returns to various systems so far, not sure what to make of it yet? Some great reports and some awful. It would be nice to just look at a site to see actual numbers as reported to date, is there anything?

www.tailspincharters.com


[/ quote]no none of the hatcherys take the time to post returns etc,as it changes every few hours ,middle of dec before all results are put to bed ,i will keep us informed as i get the results from the lower island streams,gary [esq/anglers assoc]

[reelfast]

thanks dirtdog67, you are correct that the columbia system had/has an amazing run of chinook and now coho this year. of course no one has a clue just why as the number of fry that have been released, year after year, has been about the same. perhaps the infamous 'ocean conditions' were right for these fry as they hit the salt, who knows. one thing is for certain, this years stellar salmon season does nothing to predict next year.

[chris73]

reelfast, as far as I can tell it was 1) improved ocean conditions and 2) a significant decrease in Alaska's and BC's commercial chinook TAC.

[reelfast]

thanks chris73, we will put your theory to the test next season;)

[searun]

Hey, bottom line is the US guys saved our bacon....DFO has messed up the whole program here, with ever lower escapements and lower numbers of hatchery fish production........spells disaster unless mother nature can come up with ultra strong ocean survival, which it appears to have given the number of 3 year old fish already in our rivers.

[Nimo]

"decrease in Alaska's and BC's commercial chinook TAC."

I think this deserves a whole lot more attention than it has received. Alaska curtails it's own fishery for a season and all of a sudden it's Boom time in BC??

IMO, the biggest problem for all species remains overfishing and overharvest.

[geo_tonz]

One thing not too many people talk about is the herring fishery and roe harvest. How the hell can salmon maintain their numbers if the herring are being decimated in both adulthood and as eggs? Herring don't receive the media attention of popular sport fish like Salmon do so there's no drive to conserve. Kill off the herring, kill off the salmon.
http://www.bcseafoodalliance.com/documents/Sustainherring.pdf

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...

[Osama Bin Hopper]

Go one step deeper and look at the krill harvested for fish food!!!

Gimee the gaff!!!

[chris73]

I hear you guys but please I would like to see salmon return info for 2010 on this thread.

Just learnt that the Sooke River hatchery, as of today, has obtained all the chinook eggs that they need (300,000). There will be plenty of chinooks spawing naturally on top of this. Nice result again! No info on the cohos yet.

[quicksilver11]

Was up at the Big Q last week, the fellow there said they had what they needed for Chinook (1400females) and enough males. He said they had about 2000 pinks in the system carry over from one of the other local rivers and there were other Chinook in the river as well as Coho starting to show. It looked good. But it is the same story you hear from most places not enough $$ being put in to make the returns like they should be.

[rln]

quote:Originally posted by reelfast

thanks dirtdog67, you are correct that the columbia system had/has an amazing run of chinook and now coho this year. of course no one has a clue just why as the number of fry that have been released, year after year, has been about the same. perhaps the infamous 'ocean conditions' were right for these fry as they hit the salt, who knows. one thing is for certain, this years stellar salmon season does nothing to predict next year.


not that anyone knows if it helped, but the smolts for this years return on the Columbia were not barged out like normal but instead "pushed" out with water flows. Some guys seem to be giving this at least part of the credit for the increased return to the Columbia this year.

[High Five]

quote:hear you guys but please I would like to see salmon return info for 2010 on this thread.

Just learnt that the Sooke River hatchery, as of today, has obtained all the chinook eggs that they need (300,000). There will be plenty of chinooks spawing naturally on top of this. Nice result again! No info on the cohos yet.

Thumbs up on that one Christoff.

Smiley66

[chris73]

Stole this from the Freshwater Section, author Summer Steel, hope he doesn't mind.


quote:Campbell River - 1,000,000+ Pinks,an all time record, Higher than expected chinook ( includes Quinsam stock ) & coho numbers so far, pending final counts in a few weeks.


Stamp River - 50,000 coho & still counting, 500,000 sockeye, Springs WERE there & then systematically wiped out. See other threads, summer steelhead appear strong so far, next month will tell.


Big & little Qualicum rivers - Higher than expected chinook returns, coho just starting, but plenty offshore so far, Chum numbers good to excellent in the salt right now, commercial openings in full swing though.


Quatse - excellent pink returns, strong coho numbers showing.


Cluxewe - Excellent pink numbers, Very strong coho showing.

[Charlie]

2010 should be as good as 2009! :D

Forecast of Adult Returns for Coho in 2009 and Chinook Salmon in 2010

Positive signs
• Most negative winter PDO since 2000 and most negative summer PDO since 1955
• Most negative index of El Niño activity since 1999 (This indicates La Niña, or cold equatorial ocean conditions in the eastern Pacific.)
• Coldest winter sea surface temperatures of the past 12 years
• Early and strong coastal upwelling, with average upwelling strength during April–May (when juvenile salmon first enter the ocean) the 4th highest of 11 years
• Coldest deep–water temperatures in the continental shelf of the past 12 years
• Earliest biological spring transition of the past 13 years
• Highest northern copepod biomass levels of the past 13 years

Somewhat negative signs
• Sea surface temperatures were warm from 22 July until 27 August, possibly a negative sign for juvenile coho
• Only a moderate number of juvenile coho were caught in our September survey (6th highest of 11 years)

http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/g-forecast.cfm

[SerengetiGuide]

I was just in Woss over Thanksgiving and just from looking under the bridge there were hundreds and hundreds of Coho...it was amazing. I sat and watched them for about an hr. huge schools of them. I heard from some of the people around Woss that it was the most they have ever seen...definitely the most I'd ever seen in my short life.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

[chris73]

quote:Cowichan River from what I understand has 500 or so Chinook so far?


From General, author twinwinds

[Governor]

Chris73,

Last DFO published stats (Oct 7) on Cowichan chinook were:
130 through the fence
230 in the very low clear waters of the river below the fence (at the mercy of a spear fishery and the occasionaol illegal net)

plus 600 brood stock captured by the hatchery. This seems positive but there is a negative twist ... the big problem with the hatchery is Dr Dick Beamish identified from his Georgia Strait study work that 99% of all Cowichan hatchery chinook were dead within three months of leaving the hatchery!!! One has to ask, why take those fish into the hatchery at all and not let them spawn naturally in the river if that is just how terrible the success rate is?

DFO will put out another report tomorrow and I'll post it when I get it.

I heard yesterday from a knowledgeable friend that there are now 500 chinook swimming in Nanaimo River.

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Autumn Ty-ee]

Governor by chance do you know how many Chinook the Nanaimo hatchery has caught for brood stock or if that is included in your friends count.

Autumn Ty-ee

[chris73]

Governor, thanks for the update. Regarding the non-survival of the Cowichan hacthery chinooks - I highly doubt that the survival rate of the naturally spawned would be any different. Can't see any plausible reason why they would survive at a different rate uless the released hacthery fish were weak or sick...

[Governor]

Chris73

Survival rates of wild salmon from the Cow river were also looked at by Beamish as part of his study and his findings were that wild fish did markedly better than Cow hatchery chinook. Percentage-wise I can't remember but it wasn't an automatic death sentence like 99% in three months from the hatchery. Hence my concern about the 600 going in the hatchery.

Apparently, the wisdom is that there is a well water source for the Cow Hatchery that may have or has 'occasional' spikes in heavy metals in the well water from the aquafer. This can cause healthy looking juvenile salmon to have fatal liver damage. (i.e when in hatchery and released they 'look' healthy and act absolutely fine but will likely die of liver disease.) This is a syndrome that was identified at the Marine Harvest facility also on the Cowichan where their staff had big challenges with steelhead rearing (they actually witnessed the deaths as they do not release their juvenile fish). By installing a special filtration system at the MHC Duncan hatchery completely fixed the problem 100% and now their steelhead rearing quality and success is regarded the best on the island.

Also worth noting here, I am led to believe that DFO SEP still has money available from their $ 8 million Action Plan funds (that was part $250 million science lab and hatchery funding grant). Increasing water flow (by drilling another well) and installing a special filter OR changing to use river water as the source instead of ground water are all options that need quick consideration and action. However, I fear there may be 'egos' within DFO that are just too big to admit they are not 'right' and know what's best on everything, so we may have to stand by and watch the once mighty Cowichan chinook waste away to nothing. Cowichan used to get returns as high as 12 - 15 thousand chinook per year (25k once) and now we are messing about with the last few hundred fish.




God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

Autumn Ty-ee

Sorry but I do not know. When I next speak to Wayne I'll ask. He did imply that was the swim count though so likely not the hatchery take included.


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Poppa Swiss]

quote:OR changing to use river water as the source instead of ground water

This should be such a no brainer - they are struggling to get enough water from a well with who knows what in the water. Here's an idea, raise the fish in the water from their native stream - duh!


quote:MHC Duncan hatchery completely fixed the problem 100% and now their steelhead rearing quality and success is regarded the best on the island
Umm what steelhead program, they killed it 2 years ago didn't they? Or do they raise steelhead for other streams?


Oh and Gov, they talked about releasing smolts of varying sizes, including some truly giant smolts to help them better survive - when do those come back?

Do you know anything about triploid chinook - or did DC reid make that up?


http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

[Governor]

quote:Originally posted by Poppa Swiss


quote:OR changing to use river water as the source instead of ground water

This should be such a no brainer - they are struggling to get enough water from a well with who knows what in the water. Here's an idea, raise the fish in the water from their native stream - duh!


quote:MHC Duncan hatchery completely fixed the problem 100% and now their steelhead rearing quality and success is regarded the best on the island
Umm what steelhead program, they killed it 2 years ago didn't they? Or do they raise steelhead for other streams?

As far as I know MHC is still producing steelhead. You maybe muddling up the Marine Harvest Hatchery with the province's Duncan Freshwater Fisheries Society hatchery which did kill that program - they were taking thirty or so steelhead for broodstock and all signs pointed to only 30 or less fish returning. Even me with poor math skills can figure out that is a lot of BTUs for no benefit. Plus the now retired MoE Reg 1 (VI) Fisheries Manager was dead set against any hatchery augmentation of steelhead period and Cowichan and Nitnat steelhead hatchery programs go axed because of that.


Oh and Gov, they talked about releasing smolts of varying sizes, including some truly giant smolts to help them better survive - when do those come back? No idea - do you know who 'they' are?

Do you know anything about triploid chinook - or did DC reid make that up? I read DC Reid's article and presume he is 'wishing' out load in the TC for a triploid chinook to be developed. And that was one of his suggestions to 'save the wild salmon'. His idea is to mimic the concept used in freshwater lakes in BC where the Freshwater Fisheries Society stocks triploids rainbows that pack on the pounds because food intake goes to building bulk as they cannot reproduce.

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

Here is today's official DFO Cowichan River Fish Fence Update:

This update is for 16 October.

As of 0800, 16 Oct. there have been enumerated at the Cowichan Chinook Fence:

144 Chinook adults
141 Chinook jacks
449 Coho adults
323 Coho jacks
63 Pink adults (I think this is a typo and should be 163)
19 Chum adults

A swim survey of the river downstream of the fence was conducted today. Swimmers surveyed from the fence downstream to the bridge at Clem Clem on the south arm. The north arm of the lower river was not surveyed. Water visibility conditions were very poor but the consensus of the swim surveyors was that there has not been a strong pulse of adult Chinook to the river since the swim last week.

This would indicate an increase of ONLY 18 more adult chinook in the last week and a guesstimated similar number of fish in the lower river (280 adult chinook last report) plus the fence comes out in two weeks.

It is still a dismal return by anyone's standard

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

quote:Originally posted by Autumn Ty-ee

Governor by chance do you know how many Chinook the Nanaimo hatchery has caught for brood stock or if that is included in your friends count.

Autumn Ty-ee


So Nanaimo Hatchery do have their brood stock for Summer Run chinook already in tanks at the hatchery. But none taken from the second round fall run chinook which are just arriving in river now. 500 adult chinook was the swim count from Wednesday and Nanaimo Hatchery have not taken brood from that run yet.

So Autumn Ty-ee there's your answer. [8D]

I hope it is helpful.

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[High Five]

(at the mercy of a spear fishery and the occasionaol illegal net)

that's awesome.....

What a joke. Keep on fishing for them in the river. That run is going to be wiped out soon. There should be no fishing period on that river.

Smiley66

[High Five]

Sorry I was referring to the Cowichan gong show...

[banger17]

i remember fishing down near the pumphouse (banks rd) on the cowichan 10 years ago, countless springs and coho very plentiful... doesnt quite look the same does it!?

[High Five]

nope! very sad on the Cowichan. A few things about this river:

It blows out quickly after hard rain in winter, and it dries/lowers quick. If you follow banks you can see why there is a problem. basically the banks erode all over the place. Really is a shame.

I think if I could predict 10 years from now I would say Cowichan Chinook will collapse completely, but it is possible to get Coho/Chum habitat up. Chum do seem to very well in that river. The coho are fewer but they do seem to come back.

Think the river habitat is just too damaged too get a healthy run of Chinook again. Real scary when the Chinook run is in the hundreds. I hope I am wrong though on the chinook though.

I know the volunteers and our local community are doing the best they can. The tribes has layed off Chinook a lot this year ( pink run helped). They know there is a problem too.

You still get a few spearing... illegal nets (and just so you know natives aren't the only ones a lot of non-natives illegally fishing). Steel heading last year in Cowichan I stepped in a pool with a net that was put across illegally. I don't evn think natives would appreciate that. I pulled it out, put it too side of bank, and attached a paper that read "found your net XXXXXXXX!!" (you can fill in the blanks)

There are still are stupid things going on that I can't still understand. Cherry Point coho opening etc. If runs are so bad why does DFO open recreational at all? If Koksilah/Cowichan are endangered run why open the front ocean up??

Smiley66

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Governor


quote:Originally posted by Poppa Swiss


quote:MHC Duncan hatchery completely fixed the problem 100% and now their steelhead rearing quality and success is regarded the best on the island
Umm what steelhead program, they killed it 2 years ago didn't they? Or do they raise steelhead for other streams?
As far as I know MHC is still producing steelhead. You maybe muddling up the Marine Harvest Hatchery with the province's Duncan Freshwater Fisheries Society hatchery which did kill that program - they were taking thirty or so steelhead for broodstock and all signs pointed to only 30 or less fish returning. Even me with poor math skills can figure out that is a lot of BTUs for no benefit. Plus the now retired MoE Reg 1 (VI) Fisheries Manager was dead set against any hatchery augmentation of steelhead period and Cowichan and Nitnat steelhead hatchery programs go axed because of that.

Did you know escaped Atlantic salmon are currently a by-catch that has been reported in the Johnstone Strait? And, that if those try to spawn, they use the same spawning grounds as Steelhead? They can and will destroy the Steelhead beds? If you want to make something “triploid”, that should be the Atlantic species, not the Chinook! IMHO


quote:Do you know anything about triploid chinook - or did DC reid make that up? I read DC Reid's article and presume he is 'wishing' out load in the TC for a triploid chinook to be developed. And that was one of his suggestions to 'save the wild salmon'. His idea is to mimic the concept used in freshwater lakes in BC where the Freshwater Fisheries Society stocks triploids rainbows that pack on the pounds because food intake goes to building bulk as they cannot reproduce.
That is correct; however, I would be very careful promoting “Triploid Chinook”? It sounds great to have the larger fish - which is the norm, but there are some serious downsides there! So serious, the state of Washington put a moratorium on them a few years back. I don’t think those concerns have been resolved! I haven't followed up on that issue for quite awhile, but the last I heard there was a lobby to "farm" them outside the 3 mile state control of both Alaska and Washington, as neither state wants anything to do with it.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

...all that I can add is that the Bering Sea and the mid to lower Pacific ocean better find someone to invest in producing some groceries like krill, shrimp, prawn, herring, squid, etc., before any sort of experiment like “Triploid Chinook” could be unleashed into the wild without creating some kind of diminishing effect on the other species in our local waters. It is bad enough now, let alone man intervening more that they all ready have throughout our history.

- UNKNOWN -

X2
Competing for dinner is bad, but isn't the worst part! Think about 200,000 - 1,000,000 dominate males (due to their size) in the spawning area... “Shooting Blanks”! Not good!

[Lipripper]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie


quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

...all that I can add is that the Bering Sea and the mid to lower Pacific ocean better find someone to invest in producing some groceries like krill, shrimp, prawn, herring, squid, etc., before any sort of experiment like “Triploid Chinook” could be unleashed into the wild without creating some kind of diminishing effect on the other species in our local waters. It is bad enough now, let alone man intervening more that they all ready have throughout our history.

- UNKNOWN -

X2
Competing for dinner is bad, but isn't the worst part! Think about 200,000 - 1,000,000 dominate males (due to their size) in the spawning area... “Shooting Blanks”! Not good!

Aha....but (not that I agree with at all) But why would they be on the spawning areas. They dont mature ***ually and wouldnt have the urge to return to the grounds.

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Lipripper


quote:Originally posted by Charlie


quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

...all that I can add is that the Bering Sea and the mid to lower Pacific ocean better find someone to invest in producing some groceries like krill, shrimp, prawn, herring, squid, etc., before any sort of experiment like “Triploid Chinook” could be unleashed into the wild without creating some kind of diminishing effect on the other species in our local waters. It is bad enough now, let alone man intervening more that they all ready have throughout our history.

- UNKNOWN -

X2
Competing for dinner is bad, but isn't the worst part! Think about 200,000 - 1,000,000 dominate males (due to their size) in the spawning area... “Shooting Blanks”! Not good!

Aha....but (not that I agree with at all) But why would they be on the spawning areas. They dont mature ***ually and wouldnt have the urge to return to the grounds.

Aha... you need to start reading!

[Governor]

Charlie - Just so no one gets the wrong impression, I am not in favour of the suggestion made by D.C. Reid for producing Cowichan chinook triploids, just in case that was what some thought. There are better solutions for the Cowichan chinook recovery. .

Lipripper - I am not well versed about triploids but I know for fact they try and spawn. Roche Lake Resort in the Kamloops area has an artificial spawning channel set up so the big triploid rainbows can spawn. I've actually seen them trying to spawn in that channel. Apparently, so I was told, they have the channel running in spawning season because rainbows do not die after spawning but the triploid females will die of being egg bound if there is no where to drop the eggs as the lake doesn't cut it. (that may be a pile of crap but I was told that by the owner of Roche Lake Resort) The rainbows in Roche Lake are simply for a fishery.

Of interest to some, I understand that concerns raised by several of us have led to DFO seriously considering a release of some of the 600 adult chinooks held in the hatchery for brood. Because the natural spawning beds are a far better solution right now than a hatchery that seems to produce liver damaged fish




God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Charlie]

Yep!

How about this for a statement!

PLEASE! "DO NOT SUPPORT" “INDIGENOUS SALMON TRIPLOIDS” UNTIL WE ARE SURE OF THE OUTCOME!

[Governor]

Speaking of 2009 Salmon Returns again ...

Colquitz Creek in Victoria (joins Elk Lake to Portage Inlet then into the ocean at Ogden Point), which is all but a ditch most of the year, is back in the Coho biz again! [:p] There's a volunteer run fish fence on the creek. Counts ...

2008 total adult Coho return a dismal 51 counted. (worst return in eight years)

2009 today alone 56 showed up with the high water from the heavy rains

Keep'em coming! :D



God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Lipripper]

quote:Originally posted by Governor

Lipripper - I am not well versed about triploids but I know for fact they try and spawn. Roche Lake Resort in the Kamloops area has an artificial spawning channel set up so the big triploid rainbows can spawn. I've actually seen them trying to spawn in that channel. Apparently, so I was told, they have the channel running in spawning season because rainbows do not die after spawning but the triploid females will die of being egg bound if there is no where to drop the eggs as the lake doesn't cut it. (that may be a pile of crap but I was told that by the owner of Roche Lake Resort) The rainbows in Roche Lake are simply for a fishery.


But I thought that was why the made tripliods... they don't develop gonads which would mean the hormones wouldn't materialize.... We wanted to get some for the trout farm I worked at. The reason they where appealing was that they just grew and didn't mature which takes a lot of food and energy to create the sperm/eggs. When they get their "spawn suit" on they were un-harvestable for quite some time.
At that time though the techniques were somewhat still in the rough and marginally successful.
Thats how those "trout" in lake Deifenbaker get so big...Wild west Steelhead grows tripliods to market a steelhead, The ones that escaped just sat under the pen gobbling up the fall through.

[Governor]

DFO update for Cowichan River

The fence counts to 0800 hours, 19 October are as follows:

Chinook Adults 166
Chinook Jacks 174
Coho Adults 1526
Coho Jacks 825
Chum 32
Pink 156

In addition, the Cowichan River Hatchery has collected approximately 600 Chinook, mostly adults for brood. Half of these have been returned to the Cowichan River because the Hatchery is only allowed to take one third of the spawning escapement.

The run timing projection for Chinook Adults is 218, with a min and max of 166-394.[:0][xx(] During the flood event last weekend the flow increased from 7 cms up to 22 cms, which allowed a large number of salmon, mostly Coho, to move upstream through the fishway at the fence. There was an increase in Chinook during this period as well.

The Cowichan Lake weir will be increasing the discharge today from 7 cms to 20 cms, facilitating migration of all salmon species into the Cowichan and upstream to the spawning grounds.

A couple of things for everyone to think about.

This year has seen a huge return of Pink salmon to southern BC waters including Cowichan, and there are several indications that the Coho Adult return has been strong as well, including Cowichan. Both of these groups of salmon entered the ocean in 2008. Based on this information, the Chinook Jacks should have had good survival as well but the fence data indicates a lower survival.

Cowichan, as well as Goldstream, Chemainus, Nanaimo, Somass and Thompson River (Fraser) have seen extremely low Chinook returns. This is not a unique Cowichan Chinook problem. This is a southern BC problem, which requires a southern BC solution.

In 2008 there was a low number of Chinook Jacks which indicated that the adult return this year would be low. This year, the jack return is even lower than last year indicating that next year could be even worse. In other words, the Pinks and Coho result points to a good return of Chinook Adults next year, and the Chinook Jack result point to a lower return of Chinook Adults next year.

The fence is scheduled to be removed from the river on 29-30 October although if water levels get too high then it will be removed earlier. Deadpitch operations started this week and will continue until early December.



God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

DFO Somass Update:

Somass River Escapement Observations to Oct 18 2009:

During the past 5 days at Stamp Falls Chinook adult numbers have ranged from 0 to 529. Coho adults have ranged from 0 to 1051 and Sockeye adults have ranged from 0 to 396. Total escapement is 9,060 Chinook, 58,510 Coho and 186,183 Sockeye. Sockeye escapement to Sproat Lake is estimated at 144,742 adults up to Sept 8. Additional data is available but requires some vetting.
Stamp Falls was fully operational on Oct 14/15 but was reduced to 2 hours counting on Oct 16 and was closed due to high flows and poor visibility on Oct 17/18. It is back in full operation for Oct 19.
River flows have increased substantially over the past few days and are now moderately high. River temperature is now 13 Celsius

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[SerengetiGuide]

Anyone know how the central coast returns were this year?? I've heard good things about north island returns so far, with near record or record numbers apparently.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

[chris73]

I have heard rumours that both Q's have good returns of chinook.

[SerengetiGuide]

Where do you find the escapement numbers online??

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

[Governor]

Latest on the Cowichan fence ...


This update is for 0800, 22 October.

The increased flow out of Cowichan Lake has provided good passage opportunities for salmon migration up the river. I'm anticipating that we will be able to keep the fence in until 29 October.

Totals to date:
Chinook Adults 173
Chinook Jacks 184
Coho Adults 2215
Coho Jacks 871
Chum 37

The run timing projection for a fence count of chinook is 218. The Cowichan River Hatchery has released approximately 300 Chinook above Skutz Falls and are retaining approximately 300 at the Hatchery.



God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Dirtdog67]

Has it ever crossed one's mind that the southern B.C. chinook runs have taken such a huge nose dive ever since the pressure on immature winter stocks has increased.. For one, not all of the chinook salmon that return to sea migrate to the Bearing, leaving (local adolecsents) to be hammered upon 12 months of the year. Where do you think all of these grilse to 8-10 pounders are supposed to be going come maturity.. I don't think it should have to take a senior DFO biologist to figure this one out.. Maybe there should be a closure during the opportune times that the little guys are feeding in our local waters.. Who knows, maybe the outcome would allow these guys to have their fill with mature fish instead of killing the babies because they taste better. Ahh Duhh[}:)]

[searun]

Dirty, good idea generally and I agree anglers must do their part, however I seriously doubt we have enough fish caught and retained from October to May. There just isn't the angling pressure.

I still think a large part of the problem has been a major reduction in the hatchery production as compared to south of the line.

Searun

[chris73]

Dirty, I can tell you for sure it's not the winter springs in the JDF as it has been determined manyfold that the huge majority of the springs caught there are Washington springs. My records show about 95% of the winter springs between Victoria and Sooke were clipped - therefore overwhelmingly not of Canadian origin. And to be honest, I couldn't think of any other West Coast location with a comparably established winter spring fishery that could have any significant impact on any stocks.

[Dirtdog67]

Point well taken, but the 12 inch grilse are destined for all points in between, not only during winter but even throughout aug. the reports of higher than usual numbers of the little fellas was reported in many locations.. I thought it was based on the ocean survival, juvenile mortality, and so forth that dictated a mature run size estimates.. Who knows, you just hear of commercial fisheries for immature chinook in the latter winter months and spring months.. They gotta be getting nailed somewhere along the way, even these Bearing draggers and so forth... No matter where along the line I guess we can only rip into ourselves for the mess.-dirty[8D]
p.s.- need a little smily with waders tonight, man is it pissing!!

[Barbender]

I spoke to the Renfrew Hatchery yesterday and they had extremely strong returns of Chinooks this year. They got all the fish they needed in one week. It turns out that they only took about 10% of the fish that returned to the river so there will be lots of natural reproduction on that river system this year which bodes well for the future. The fact that no one lives on that river system seems to be a strong factor in healthy returns.

[chris73]

The Sooke River has strong returns this year as well and there are tons of people living along this river. There must be more to the equation than that.

[SnapperAttacker]

Sooke river is not that strong, yes they are easy to catch right now, but its not very high in numbers.

[chris73]

I am not talking about how easy they can be caught. I am referring to how quickly the hatchery had their brood stock together (springs and coho)and how many springs and cohos made it into the system. Definately one of the better years compared to the last years (2008 was pretty good too). There is no fish count on the Sooke so we don't know the numbers but experience tells us it's a good year. Chums don't look too bad either.

[goose]

Hey Governor, what is the latest counts on the Cowichan?? I see they took down the counting fence on Wed. Thanks

[alley cat]

As of the 19th of October here is the Cowichan Round Table report.
Chinook 166 , 174 jacks
All streams flowing into the Georgia Straits basin are recording alarmingly low chinook returns.
Coho 1526 , jacks 825
Pinks 155 , many thousands milling around the deep sea dock , the rains have pulsed some in the last few days.
Hatchery had 500 chinook and 50 jacks , they returned 300 above Skutz Falls for brood stock.
Cowichan Tribes guardians and other community volunteers seized 7 illegal nets 5 were apparently native and 2 were non native.
Chum are starting to enter the system now.
This is the report I have from the CFRT Meeting.

AL

[Pablo2079]

Doesn't it seem like taking the first returns for hatchery brood stock will eventually push the runs earlier and earlier? Seems like it would act like natural selection.... in an unnatural way.

[Governor]

Hey Goose,

Only just saw your request for Cowichan numbers. Here's the last official DFO report on the fence and river info ...


This update is for 28 October.

This will be the final update of the Cowichan Chinook fence this year. I will put out an email with finalized numbers of Chinook escapement when the data has been reviewed and analyzed. We will look at the deadpitch data and video data to make adjustments to the fence counts, plus I'll provide final numbers on the Cowichan River Hatchery brood take and release, the Cowichan Tribes' Food, Social, and Ceremonial catch and the Commercial and Sport catches of coded-wire tagged Cowichan Chinook.

The Cowichan Chinook fence was removed from the water yesterday, two days earlier than planned. I made this decision based on a forecast of 2 inches of rain for today and tomorrow which would have made very dangerous conditions for the original date of tomorrow and a possibility of damaging the fence panels in higher flows. As it was the panels were going under water Monday morning despite constant cleaning of the leaf debris coming downstream.

The interim final fence counts are:
Chinook Adults - 175
Chinook Jacks - 195
Coho Adults - 3565
Coho Jacks - 941
Chum - 134
Pink - 71
Unknown - 91

The Unknown category are mostly Pink salmon. Over the next few weeks the video data will be reviewed to check species ID, counts and to categorize the unknowns. In the past this effort has not changed the visual count significantly.

There was a large push of Chum salmon over the last couple of days that isn't reflected in the fence count as they were able to leap over the submerged panels. Also, it's great to see a large return of Coho salmon this year.

The deadpitch crew have reported Chinook spawning activity and they have recovered their first Chinook carcass.


Note the comment on Coho - "large return" (3565 adults - is that large for Cowichan?) These are relative to the time the fence is removed. Usually by end of October only a few hundred have gone past the fence, but many more will come into the river over November and December. So the total number for 2009 should be much higher than normal.

If I get any more info I'll post it.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

Hey Goose,

Only just saw your request for Cowichan numbers. Here's the last official DFO report on the fence and river info ...


This update is for 28 October.

This will be the final update of the Cowichan Chinook fence this year. I will put out an email with finalized numbers of Chinook escapement when the data has been reviewed and analyzed. We will look at the deadpitch data and video data to make adjustments to the fence counts, plus I'll provide final numbers on the Cowichan River Hatchery brood take and release, the Cowichan Tribes' Food, Social, and Ceremonial catch and the Commercial and Sport catches of coded-wire tagged Cowichan Chinook.

The Cowichan Chinook fence was removed from the water yesterday, two days earlier than planned. I made this decision based on a forecast of 2 inches of rain for today and tomorrow which would have made very dangerous conditions for the original date of tomorrow and a possibility of damaging the fence panels in higher flows. As it was the panels were going under water Monday morning despite constant cleaning of the leaf debris coming downstream.

The interim final fence counts are:
Chinook Adults - 175
Chinook Jacks - 195
Coho Adults - 3565
Coho Jacks - 941
Chum - 134
Pink - 71
Unknown - 91

The Unknown category are mostly Pink salmon. Over the next few weeks the video data will be reviewed to check species ID, counts and to categorize the unknowns. In the past this effort has not changed the visual count significantly.

There was a large push of Chum salmon over the last couple of days that isn't reflected in the fence count as they were able to leap over the submerged panels. Also, it's great to see a large return of Coho salmon this year.

The deadpitch crew have reported Chinook spawning activity and they have recovered their first Chinook carcass.


Note the comment on Coho - "large return" (3565 adults - is that large for Cowichan?) These are relative to the time the fence is removed. Usually by end of October only a few hundred have gone past the fence, but many more will come into the river over November and December. So the total number for 2009 should be much higher than normal.

If I get any more info I'll post it.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[High Five]

Great news to see Coho numbers up again. Still low on the Chinook, but hopefully it will get better next year.

It is nice to see the water level up finally.

Smiley66

[High Five]

Great news to see Coho numbers up again. Still low on the Chinook, but hopefully it will get better next year.

It is nice to see the water level up finally.

Smiley66

[Governor]

Smiley 66

Some of the problem of the low 2009 adult Cowichan chinook returns could well be from interception in commercial harvest. I am sure Area G off NWVI, eventhough cut back due to the PST reductions, will have harvested a number of Cowichan chinook in their fishery again. It will be interesting when the SFAB get to see the data from the Coded Wire Tags returns.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

Smiley 66

Some of the problem of the low 2009 adult Cowichan chinook returns could well be from interception in commercial harvest. I am sure Area G off NWVI, eventhough cut back due to the PST reductions, will have harvested a number of Cowichan chinook in their fishery again. It will be interesting when the SFAB get to see the data from the Coded Wire Tags returns.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Governor]

There is an important Victoria SFAB Meeting on Wednesday Nov 4th
@ 7:00 PM in the Orchid Room of the Sandman Hotel on Douglas Street

Details on this site located at

Important Meetings, Derbys and SFBC Get Togethers
Victoria Area SFAB Mtg - Wed 4th Nov @ 7:00PM

or this link gets you there

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13730

This fall's terribly low adult Cowichan chinook return is on the agenda as one of the topics for discussion. Anglers Welcome -Please Plan to Attend

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[chris73]

You bet!

Is there gonna be hatchery staff giving return information, e.g. Sooke, San Juan, Nitnat, Goldstream, Cowichan etc.?

[Governor]

Chris73

We should have all the latest hatchery numbers from the area to report.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[Barbender]

What I dont understand is these meetings are held every year which I attend. People put in their suggestions, ideas, complaints etc, and there is all this talk of change yet nothing ever gets done and nothing changes. I read somewhere that the run on the Cowichan River used to be reported in the NY Times in the early days because it had so many fish. Now it is a ghost of its formal self

[Fishalot]

[quote]Originally posted by alley cat

As of the 19th of October here is the Cowichan Round Table report.
Chinook 166 , 174 jacks
All streams flowing into the Georgia Straits basin are recording alarmingly low chinook returns.
Coho 1526 , jacks 825
Pinks 155 , many thousands milling around the deep sea dock , the rains have pulsed some in the last few days.
Hatchery had 500 chinook and 50 jacks , they returned 300 above Skutz Falls for brood stock.
Cowichan Tribes guardians and other community volunteers seized 7 illegal nets 5 were apparently native and 2 were non native.
Chum are starting to enter the system now.
This is the report I have from the CFRT Meeting.

AL
[/quote

Like the other 2 nets werent natives...:D With numbers like that its time for the Government to start handing out harsher fines to anyone trying to poach.

[drhook]

SFAB has seen the numbers and you're right, it is due to commercial interception! It came up at the last SFAB meeting in Nanaimo. DFO admitted that 20 Cowichan fish were caught in the Area G troll before it was shut down. Normally in the past few years it was shut down when 7 Cowichan fish were caught!
There simply is not enough fish for commercial harvesting! The fleet should be cut to half it size... and then the next day cut in half again and maybe, just maybe, we have a chance of saving whats left of the pacific salmon.


quote:Originally posted by Governor

Smiley 66

Some of the problem of the low 2009 adult Cowichan chinook returns could well be from interception in commercial harvest. I am sure Area G off NWVI, eventhough cut back due to the PST reductions, will have harvested a number of Cowichan chinook in their fishery again. It will be interesting when the SFAB get to see the data from the Coded Wire Tags returns.

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[alley cat]

Fishalot thats a dumb statement ! , go and talk to the people who patrol the river , and Oh yeah by the way they aren't all FN , the 3
I know were WASP and they found the 2 non native nets , almost got the white poachers except they buggered off in a truck before they could break out of the bush and get the licence number.
Your predjudice is showing !

AL

[Poppa Swiss]

quote: DFO admitted that 20 Cowichan fish

Maybe I'm not understanding, but I don't see how taking 20 fish from the run can cause the collapse?

From the meetings in duncan over the last few years, I thought the main issue was the smolts were going up the straight of georgia then disappearing? As in never making it to adults?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

[SerengetiGuide]

quote:Originally posted by Poppa Swiss


quote: DFO admitted that 20 Cowichan fish

Maybe I'm not understanding, but I don't see how taking 20 fish from the run can cause the collapse?

From the meetings in duncan over the last few years, I thought the main issue was the smolts were going up the straight of georgia then disappearing? As in never making it to adults?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!


I believe he was being sarcastic.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

[Governor]

DrHook probably got Coded Wire Tags and actual Cowichan chinook salmon muddled up. I too heard there were a bunch of Cowichan CWTs in the Area G catch too. 20 coded wire tags represents a lot more actual fish when DFO use a computer model to extrapolate (hundreds of fish).

The Cowichan are being plagued by a whoole lot of problems ... Hatchery smolts dying off at an alarming rate greater than 99% in 3 months from release, poor ocean survival, mortality in fiseries, high mortality due to predators and spear fishing in the river to name but a few..

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[drhook]

That's exactly what I meant to say in my post 'Governer'. My bad, I didn't say it well.
20 Cowichan fish with coded wire tags represents a much larger number of Cowichan fish taken. I don't know what the extrapolation figure is that DFO uses but it must represent a large number if they cut the trollers off at 7 in previous years.

[chris73]

I'd be surprised if more than 1 in a 100 get a wire tag. Taking that you could assume 20 CWT translate to approx. 2000 fish taken. That is 400% of what made it finally back to the river.

[Governor]

x2

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

[kelly]

Ouch... That is a huge impact.Just right place at right time to intercept?

Ps anyone have numbers for the qualicums? or know where to find them?

[Cuba Libre]

Kelly-- this is the latest I have. If you need more info, email me.
Bryan


quote:b. Qualicum River Systems Report; Les Clint
-Coho are becoming a serious issue for both Qualicum systems;
-Chinook are good with escapements being met and 4,000 ESSR fish were made available for Qualicum 1st Nation from Big Qualicum and 1400 from Little Q.
-Nile Creek pink returns seem to be approximately 25,000; which also is an amazing return for the Nile.
-Question asked re what is happening with the Chum Working group. (Unable to re-act fast enough to initiate incubation modifications and extra funding)
-DNA sampling is taking place but no data back yet. Baseline DNA required for 3 stocks; collection in progress; analysis expensive and time consuming.
Action; Area 14 SFAC Chair will write a letter to Stock Assessment enquiring; what and when, or if, we can see the results of the DNA sampling of the mixed stock Commercial fishery taking place in Area 14 as well as the Johnstone Strait Commercial fisheries.
i) Big Qualicum River:
-Coho dismal at best with only 2,000 in River and expectations for maybe another 1,000 (large percentage of these fish were hatchery marked.
-3,000 chum which is very poor. Oct.30 update total to fence estimate 4500 (still poor)
-Our hope is that the chum are not being caught in the continuing area H chum opening
-Something is happening as the same numbers of Chum are being released out of the hatchery through the years.
-DNA sampling is supposed to be happening this year in the commercial fishery to see if these fish are being caught in the commercial fishery.
-Last few years Coho have been less than desired minimum escapement
-Pinks were at 17,000 which is best in many years.
ii) Little Qualicum River:
-about 121 Coho total counted at the channel and incidental with the Chinook brood
-Oct 30th total Chum estimate now 22,000
Little Qualicum does not enhance Coho but number have decreased to an average of less than 800 or 1000 over the last years.
Les had the chance to query the Little Q full time staff to get a more accurate estimate of number handled so far and annual average number since the Oct 29 meeting

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj412/Batbreath/Intruder2-2.jpg

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

[chris73]

Thanks CL. I badly wanted some info on the Q's. But the results are weird at best: chinook seem good for both systems - that leaves the Cowichan and Goldstream chinooks the only two ECVI systems with really terrible chinooks returns while all the other ECVI systems had good or ok chinook returns. But in turn Coho is good or excellent for most systems across the BC coast except for mid/southern ECVI systems. What do we make out of that?

[Poppa Swiss]

quote:that leaves the Cowichan and Goldstream chinooks the only two ECVI systems with really terrible chinooks returns while all the other ECVI systems

Could it be that these fish travel home on the outside of the island while the other's come down the inside?

I know Cowichan comes from the outside but I'm just speculating on the others, don't know their migration route?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

[kelly]

Thanks alot CL!

Like chris said, those are some really odd numbers.Good to hear the chinook were good but jesus 5400 fish given to FN?Did i read that correctly?! Walked all around the little q on sat.Followed the entire spawning channel counting coho and saw maybe 25 [xx(] but lots of chum. Unreal how the big q only has 4500 and the little q 22,000.

I was a little suprised/disappointed when i saw the little q had opened for springs this year.In that tiny system they stack so tight it was likely turned into a gongshow with people flossing/snagging.I guess if the numbers are there though...

[cletus]

quote:Originally posted by chris73

Thanks CL. I badly wanted some info on the Q's. But the results are weird at best: chinook seem good for both systems - that leaves the Cowichan and Goldstream chinooks the only two ECVI systems with really terrible chinooks returns while all the other ECVI systems had good or ok chinook returns. But in turn Coho is good or excellent for most systems across the BC coast except for mid/southern ECVI systems. What do we make out of that?


Anybody have any numbers for the nanaimo and chemainus rivers,last i heard it was another dismal year for these ECVI rivers.

[chris73]

Sorry no numbers here either from Nanaimo and Chem - maybe I find time to call the hatchery tomorrow. But I have heard second hand that the numbers were low as expected - so let's say no positive surprise. I guess when you start from 3 couple few years ago you cannot expect to rebuild very quickly - unfortunately. That's the lesson we all should learn and get - once they are gone it will be a huge and lengthy undertaking to bring them back. Rather smarten up before it's too late.

Poppa, the only conclusion from those inconsistent returns I can draw is that there is no global issue at play with this year's return as this would have impacted all stocks - or at least a similar bunch. Here is something more specific and targeted at play that only affects the mentioned runs and species. Maybe: a concentrated commercial take? Riversystem specific issues like the water quality issue at Cowichan hatchery? Definitely human impact and therefore in DFO's shoes.

[Cuba Libre]

Here is part of what you want Chris .. Figures at the Nanimo hatchery until the end of the month




http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj412/Batbreath/Intruder2-2.jpg

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

[chris73]

Thanks CL. Interesting data. Seems that the Nanaimo summer run Chinook were ok but the fall run not looking very good. Having said that, it surprises me that the hatchery was not able to get more fall run chinook broodstock even though the swim count indicated that there were more fish in the system. They should have been a little more agressive collecting brood stock I think and they could have had all the 450k eggs they needed - you only need 150 fish for this. But even though not great for this river at least it is not as bad as Cowichan or Goldstream. What is really disturbing is the low numbers of Coho. Hopefully there will be a late push. Again, those numbers confirm: Cowichan and Goldstream pretty much the only ECVI streams with catastrophic chinook returns. WHY?

[Cuba Libre]

Hey Chris.. I know that some guys from the area plan on demanding answers at the next South Coast SFAB meeting. Hopefully there will be a decent plan forthcoming for those stocks.

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj412/Batbreath/Intruder2-2.jpg

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

[Shermanater]

quote:Originally posted by chris73

Thanks CL. Interesting data. Seems that the Nanaimo summer run Chinook were ok but the fall run not looking very good. Having said that, it surprises me that the hatchery was not able to get more fall run chinook broodstock even though the swim count indicated that there were more fish in the system. They should have been a little more agressive collecting brood stock I think and they could have had all the 450k eggs they needed - you only need 150 fish for this. But even though not great for this river at least it is not as bad as Cowichan or Goldstream. What is really disturbing is the low numbers of Coho. Hopefully there will be a late push. Again, those numbers confirm: Cowichan and Goldstream pretty much the only ECVI streams with catastrophic chinook returns. WHY?



Chris73 I guess working 16 hour days for the first 2 weeks of october isn't "Agressive" enough for you? I work at the hatchery and we busted our buts trying to get all our chinook brood. The numbers posted were from early october and are not our final #'s. Mother nature was not on our side with extremely low water and high temperatures making it impossibe to collect early chinook. Yes the swim counts show chinook in river but they were in areas that we cannot get to. FYI we did fall a little short of our fall run target but still managed to collect 382,881 green eggs.

Please do not insult our efforts without knowledge of what we actually do.

[searun]

Thanks Sherm for setting the record straight. Sometimes we can get carried away thinking more is possible without getting the full info on barriers encountered.

[chris73]

No insult intended Shermanater. I know first hand what hatchery work means and how hard people work there, believe me. You are right - I know very little about the specific circumstances on the Nanaimo and I want to apologize if I came across as rude. Just concerned about the salmon and trying to piece together a picture from the little info available to the public. Maybe you guys could send out more info about what's going on with the Nanaimo and its problems and we all would be better informed?

[High Five]

Speaking of cool hatchery/volunteer work I went for a walk by my home in Shawnigan, and noticed several coho milling around Shawnigan Creek as far as edge of the lake. I assume these are brought/trucked up from lower sections of the creek. Nice to see salmon up here that far...

Pretty good sized male/female coho.

Smiley66

[rico]

just curious smiley, but why would they truck them up there?If they spawn there, but cant get there on their own, how are their offspring going to get back? Really cool for them to be there though.

[sundance]

quote:Originally posted by rico

just curious smiley, but why would they truck them up there?If they spawn there, but cant get there on their own, how are their offspring going to get back? Really cool for them to be there though.

[sundance]

the goldstream hatchery about 10 ys ago put fry up shawnigan creek at cameron,taggert rd to start a run of coho to return to the creek,they migrate over the falls ,with no problem ,on return they swim in to a holding shed at the base of the falls ,then loaded in to a tote and hauled up the rockface [7 at a time to tank trailer 30 at a time up to cameron rd ,up to date this year 640 have been taken up there ,as is a great creek with lots of spawning area,some years it has got the goldstream hatchery help to keep us going ,the locals do the labour intensive work with help from our hatchery as well ,we did try chinook but seals ruined that for a while ,but coho returns are awesome !

[sundance]

chris how is your coho count on the colquitz to date! we have up to today 240 coho thru the trap with brood stock taken to the hatchery,had the trapper in ,so far 1 mink /1 otter ,millstream has had 100 go thru the camara [up the fish ladder] with 3 otters getting their share [trappers next stop] [the above 240 is from the craigflower trap above portage inlet ,gorge water way!

[High Five]

Hey guys,

Maybe someone can answer question. If anyone has seen the Cowichan or other rivers you know they are beyond blown out.

The question is with all the rains recently how will that effect spawning. My guy feeling is it would be negative. I would assume the higher the flow rate the more likely of salmon eggs being swept away?

In the past few days there have been record rainfalls that will essential shock the rivers all over the island. Will this impact the return negatively?

Smiley66

[chris73]

It can, smiley. However, our short coastal streams inherently deal with huge seasonal flow fluctuations and nature have seemed to adapt to this to a certain (natural) degree. Trouble is where man has made it worse to beyond their tolerance level (high water: increased runoff due to storm sewer discharge and lack of runoff detention etc., low water: water extraction or diversion in the summer). By looking at some of the news pictures from the Puntledge etc. last weekend, you can bet that quite a few salmon eggs were dug up and washed down the channel...

[Pablo2079]

Just got off the phone with Bob at the Sunshine Coast Hatchery (Chapman Creek, Sechelt).

Here are the unofficial returns to the hatchery:

Pink - 7500
Coho - 1500
Chinook - 90-100

The Chinook historically are at about 500-600, so the return is lower than normal... similar to other inside hatcheries.

They also have about 1.8 million Chum eggs in their incubators right now.... Chapman Creek itself doesn't get a big Chum return, but the stock is from returns to Porpoise Bay.


http://www.scsalmon.org/